Are moderator's too heavy handed?

Question

I fully understand why the moderators need to keep angry and inflammatory posts off the site. Nevertheless, I can't understand why they remove posts which ask legitimate questions which could result in angry replies. I think this is wrong!!! If the question is reasonable, it should be allowed, but angry or unreasonable or inflammatory replies should not be tolerated.

I have recently had a few very polite and respectful posts removed, and I'm so annoyed that I'm about ready to quit CH. If "touchy" or controversial topics cannot be politely discussed here, then I think this site loses much of it's value. Two recent posts I've had removed related to 1) how I should best handle a situation when we were seated next to over-the-top unruly children, and 2) whether a restauranteur's political stand should reasonably influence the choice of dining there.

I think the moderators greatly overstep their bounds by removing the legitimate questions. Their role should be removing disrespectful, vulgar, angry, inflammatory responses....not the reasonable question! Do others agree?

Answer

There are a few areas where people have great difficulty discussing the subject with any kind of decorum, children in restaurants is one and politics is another. When a subject is one that goes badly and is tangential to our core mission of helping people find delicious food -- which is the case with both of these -- we can't spare the resources from investigating shilling and keeping the rest of the site honest and friendly in order to keep on top of a thread that is inevitably going to be flame-filled and ugly. 

We'll sometimes leave a question on those topics if it's framed very carefully in a way that'll stave off the flames for awhile, and then lock it once it becomes too unruly for us to manage effectively. If the thread is headed downhill right from the start, we're sorry, but for an issue that's only tangentially related to food, sometimes it's just not worth the amount of time and attention it would take to keep it in line.

Answer

Moderation policies seem arbitrary and biased in favor of the regulars who are mostly a clique....I have had posts removed from LA thread and yet others have been allowed to post the same info/comments and it was not removed (i.e., questions regarding 5Guys that were LA specific). Currently a regular has posted that a restaurant, among other things, is dirty and that comment stands. Yet when I commented that a roach crawled across the table at a local restaurant that comment was removed.

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in short - yes. they are. but they are pretty much too heavy handed across the board,a s far as new vs established posters go. for a while it seemed i was on someones radar, where almost every post i made seemed to be contested. finally a few were put back, as it was seen that someone had an axe to grind, and it has been more consistent since. i would prefer a less moderated site, but this will never become that, so i just accept it with a shrug, post what i want, and don't worry about it getting removed or not.

Answer

It's "their" board.

You are not entitled to question what the moderators do about removing posts.

This isn't like Uncle Sam telling a newspaper what to publish.

No First Amendment rights here, my fell 'Hound.

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YES, and their heavy handedness usually doesn't make sence, leave the offensive stuff up and remove entire conversations that where/are pertinent to the post. It seems they have pretty loose guidelines that leaves alot up their discresion, or in some cases remove every post by certain people regardless of the content or thread.

Answer

Those two posts you listed are provocative in nature. They invite very emotional arguments and personal attacks. In theory, if there are enough moderators, then what you asked for is true. That is, the moderators should remove the disrespectful responses. In practice, there just aren't that many moderators, so they remove potentially problematic posts. Yes, it would be nice that the moderators only remove the offensive responses, but when the original post generates numerous angry and offensive posts, then it is a problem on it own. You cannot expect the moderator just sit there and read every responses and delete the angry responses.


The "Not About Food" section is what it suggests -- not about food. Most of the topics there are fun little discussions.

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My house, my rules.

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I totally agree. While they certainly have that right (like someone said, 1st amend does not apply), I've rolled my eyes plenty at what gets removed here. Never seen anything like it on any other website.

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I've noticed that more than one of my posts have disappeared without rhyme, reason or explanation and I'm fairly certain that they didn't break any of the etiquette rules.

It's disheartening. This site is what it is because of user input and the excuse in the FAQ: "We're just too busy to let you know why we arbitrarily removed something you took the time to write" is a cop-out. If a moderator has time to read your post and delete it, they have time to jot a quick note or cut and paste a standard note to let you know why.

The moderation on this site is very heavy-handed. If an interesting thread develops, but it's slightly off-topic, it gets removed. There also seems to be a secret list of blacklisted restaurants and any mention of them is removed without explanation. 

I've moderated a few websites in my time, ranging from travel to gardening, and I've never seen a site with such arbitrary and uncommunicative moderation.

Answer

Yes, they are too heavy-handed. Sometimes.
Sometimes they are too lax.

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

Answer

I wouldn't say heavy handed,but safe no matter what.Much is diluted down to pablum and milk toast with deletes,even if on subject.

Paula Dean & Anthony Bourdain are the subjects,targets etc on a food media and news thread.Specific unflattering posts regarding Bourdain's habits etc are largely left untouched.Yet a much heavier hand is applied to deleting unpleasant or unflattering statements about Ms Dean.The examples I am aware of are a matter of very public record.So some slant here or perhaps some pandering to sponsers is at play here.

Yet there isn't much if any governing of real safety.I've read four or five things over the past two days that are risky,reckless and irresponsible in the food safety sense,translate to liability.Those posts will stand the test of time because I simply not interested enough to hit report and then perhaps take a lot of time explaining why.I see that as the mods job to find and take care of.The self same folks that have never emailed me or responded to an inquirery of mine.

Answer

I don't particularly understand why there has to be moderation of any sort. A button to flag spam/hate posts ought to be enough, no? I understand that we're "supposed to keep it about the chow", but is this Nazi Germany? My sister, who was more a lurker than a poster until recently has had about 75% of her posts deleted. That's a great way to spark new membership.

I'll go out on a (probably deleted) limb and say the mods are useless. Love the site, detest the stupid box all posts are supposed to fit inside of.

Answer

Another peeve of mine concerns the NYC Boards. For example: When someone asks about finding good restaurants or certain ingredients on the Manhattan Board. Someone will inevitably reply the Outerboroughs. A mod will either comment on (negatively), delete or move the reply because it has nothing to do with Manhattan, but all to do with NYC as a whole. It's about time that CH recognizes that NYC has five boroughs. And while topics can and should certainly be borough specific, a general/broad Post does not require alike replies to be subjugated to such a silly rule and actions. As such, IMO, it puts a damper on the goodwill of the discussion and possibly hides useful information from the OP and others who read the post.

Answer

A subthread regarding a polite dispute about the nature of a restaurant on a thread on a midwest board just got thrashed by the Volunteers. One of those posts included a good list of other restaurants the OP could go to. Another post (mine) with a comment regarding that restaurant - but which also added another suggestion to the OP for a 'change of pace' restaurant - got tossed too. So much info lost. Shaking my head here.

Answer

Totally agree, and I think the problem is more about inconsistency and personal quirks than about keeping a status quo. I've seen many things removed that seemed reasonable, and then, even as late as today, have seen some posts that were allowed to stand even though they were offensive to the larger CH demographic. (Edit, an hour later) Except which, that one particularly offensive post got removed, to which I say, good on them for re-thinking it, because it surely looked as if it was going to sit right there and be rancid as all getout.)

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Have to add my two cents to this: ABSOBLOODYLUTELY!!!

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Have to add my two cents to this: ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

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Folks, just a quick note that we do try to keep these threads more on larger patterns and general issues than single, 'this happened recently' reports which we generally don't address in public. If you have a question or comment about a specific recent moderation decision, we'd ask that you please email us at moderators@chowhound.com, rather than posting about it here. We may not be able to answer your question, even privately, especially if it wasn't your post that was removed, but we really try not to do that publicly unless there's a broader point that we think needs to be made to a larger audience.

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very heavy handed. posts constantly removed.

i'm not even sure if this reply will make it.

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Usually I don't think they are too heavy handed - today I do.

An entire thread asking about Snooth in the Wine forum has been removed. 
Lesson learned there? Don't talk bad about Chowhound's partners and for heaven's sake don't tell the truth. 
I only hope that Soupkitten saw my response before they deleted it.

Answer

I hear you - I have had I think only one post removed - and it was the most mundane post ever. I think I called a poster "passive aggressive" because rather than responding to a post they simply posted 6 or 7 posts about the same topic (no text, no comment, just links - which if you ask me is by definition passive aggressive). Anyway it was gone within 5 minutes. Further supporting my comment. 

Anyway, it gets silly sometimes. I've decided to just let it go and not worry about it. It is just a food blog after all . . . . .

Answer

Well, *of course* they're heavy-handed. My latest example: I started a thread entitled "To Eat, Perchance to Dream" about a strange and funny food dream. I asked others to share their food dreams. Poof! I *did* get an email from a mod "explaining" that my post was deleted because it "wouldn't help CHs find delicious chow."

This epitomizes the arbitrary, sometimes heavy-handed moderation here, because the same`standard applied universally would result in about 50% of all posts being stripped down.

Just for shits and giggles, I asked the mod if it would be OK to repost in Not About Food. I was told no.

Answer

To me it's not about heavy handedness. It's about inconsistency. I posted something about a Dunkin' -Doughnuts add and was immediately taken down. I've seen others post insults that seem to remain untouched. A while back I wrote a detailed post about a service incident some friends had. Didn't bash anyone or bad mouth the restaurant. Yet is was removed with out explanation. It can get discouraging when you take the time to write something you think will be of interest only to have it removed for some unknown reason. While other questionable posts remain.

Sometimes it's hard to know just what it is they want.

Answer

You know, most sites wouldn't allow this thread at all. Moderation is usually something that is discussed between the moderators and the site members directly and open discussions of moderation are not allowed. On the other hand, whenever a thread is modified, the affected users are notified.

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now the thread about the guy ordering on the 1st date is gone? sometimes this site treats us like we're infants

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Over in the NNEngland forum, there is a post about an "excellent place!" where the poster neither identifies the restaurant or its location. I reported this post as spam, but only after the poster declined to identify the restaurant - and the nonsense remains, but my post was removed! I am thoroughly disgusted, also by the fact that it is apparently impossible to contact the moderators directly or for them to give me the courtesy of a message explaining why MY post was removed. Like you, I'm pretty well ready to quit CH for good.

Answer

I agree that disrespectful, vulgar, angry, inflammatory responses are in need of deletion. There is a recipe of mine on this site that has a vulgar comment that CHOW won't delete, since it's not a "personal attack," and it's driving me a little batty. Kind of like having graffiti on your house and not being able to scrub it off. 

For the most part, I have been happy with how Chowhound gets moderated. I've learned some internet etiquette over the years that I had no idea about, and I'm glad to be told the reason if a post of mine is deleted, moved, or some such. It's all a give and take. For instance, I didn't initially realize that linking offsite to recipes on one's own site was taboo -- now I know to post recipes in-thread or in the database if I want to share with the hounds. I guess I just wish I had some kind of control over the comments on my own recipes here!

Answer

They do make it difficult.

I once posted a story about a service issue that happened to some friends at one of Manhattan's top restaurants. The 'incident did bother my friends they just thought it curious I didn't bash the restaurant merely related an odd event as it was told to me thinking if would be an interesting subject for discussion on CH. The thread was immediately taken down. I assumed that it was because I name the restaurant in question. Then it got me thinking how many thread are out there bashing named restaurants that are currently thriving on CH.

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as i'm just being let back in after an enforced exile, i have to say yes, yes they are

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Mods, what the hell? Why are you stepping all over our threads in the Spirits forum? Deleting posts, and then deleting the posts asking where the posts are? Trying to make it look like nothing is going on? This is totally unprofessional and uncalled for. At least leave a message when you delete something so that the threads don't get totally disjointed. 

Better yet, just stay out of the forum. Moderation adds nothing of value to our discussions and only serves to destroy any sense of community that we've managed to build up over the years.

FWIW, I have engaged in "online" discussions on bulletin boards, on CompuServe, in newsgroups, in forums, and everything in-between since the late '80s, and in my humble opinion the moderators on this site are by far the most uselessly heavy handed I've ever encountered. Back off!

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I seldom post here anymore for these exact reasons. I am tired of writing a long post that I feel is not inflammatory, is on topic, and still, for some obscure reason I can't possibly predict in advance because I don't have a crystal ball that lets me understand the mystic rules of the moderators, my post is deleted. The effort, time, and care I invest in writing a long post only to have my words thrown into the void was too much to bear the first two times it happened, let alone the fifth time, and I finally held true to my promise and stopped writing any posts more than a few sentences in length.

Also, the fact that so much is denied by the moderators, but six different posts in a week by different individuals asking for general recommendations for a certain city and that is permitted (i.e. ridiculous levels of repetition in posts) makes me strongly question the moderation. Repetitive posts like this clutter up and reduce the value of the board far more than anything else, IMO. Certainly, some topics deserve revisiting, perhaps even on a regular basis, but that level of repetition makes a horrible mess: such threads should be referred to one thread to conglomerate, frozen, and subsequently deleted a week later or so.

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I have witnessed some incredibly innocuous posts removed. On the other hand, I have also seen some late night, rude and probably alcohol induced posts from others justifiably removed. 

My thought is that I am a guest here. It seems to me that Chowhound opens up the door to their house and allows anyone to enter. But if you do enter you have to live by their decisions whether fair or unfair on certain occasions. I do not have an issue with that. I was not specifically invited to be a guest in their house and I am free to leave at any time.

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Oh what the hell. So far I've resisted the temptation to join in here but I need to bring this up.

Because a lot of the people on this site are pretty opinionated (myself included) sometimes discussions get heated. Fair enough. And sometimes individual posts go too far and get deleted. Again, fair enough. The threads that get particularly heated get special attention from the mods. You can tell because over the course of days you see particularly contentious posts get deleted. Again, I have no problem with that.

What I *do* have a problem with are when threads from a couple of years back get reopened and then the mods go through a whole *other* round of deletions. Again, this is on threads where the mods were paying close attention the first time around.

It's as if the NFL refs sat around watching tapes of old Superbowls and arbitrarily reversed the calls of the refs who were on the field.

Once a given set of posts passes a review by a moderator I really think that ought to be it. I recognize that the mods are human and have different interpretation of the rules. That said, maybe the moderator who reviewed the posts the first time around had it right. The alternative, endless review years after the original posting date, means that the moderator with the strictest interpretation of the rules always gets the last call. 

I understand that the mods have plenty to do. That's why they shouldn't be spending time reviewing posts that have already been judged acceptable.

Answer

The Toronto mods are horrible (sorry,guys). I kow many good posters who stopped coming to CH because of the overmoderation that takes place.

They delete posts andtopics without warning.
Comm ication with them is next to mpossible.
They will rarel reply to emails sent to them.

They allow people to pos entire blog entries. No one wants to read a whole blog post on CW?just a quote or three.

Worst part? They allow blogs like blog.to to be lnked ( a for profit site) but will delete posts is a person references his/her blog or someone ekse's (not for profit) blog.

You guys need to lay offon the moderation and shameless promotion of that awful site, blog.to

Answer

Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess.- Oscar Wilde
No good deed goes unpunished.-Clare Boothe Luce 

I use to believe that online moderation was just plain evil, folks with nothing better to do than nit pic. But no matter what a volunteer Mod does on CH they just aren't going to make us happy...or happy for very long. I wouldn't want the volunteer gig and I wouldn't want the decision-making buzzkill it winds up becoming. Afterall, Mods are also CH's and if they still dig the hell out of this site after a shift of moderating, that's some strong compartmental skills right there. Moderation is a thankless, nasty necessity. I can live w/it.

Answer

We've removed some more discussion of why and how specific posts or posters are being moderated. As we explained upthread, we prefer not to discuss specific situations publicly. It seems to us that this thread has run its course, so we're going to close it now.

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