More intense heat in thinner pans?

Question

Let’s see if I can make this in a clear way (in my second language). When I use the lowest flame on the widest burner on my Ilve gas stove it sometimes gets to hot. For example, when I sear roast meat (before it goes into the oven) it will take some time to get a nice crust all around the roast, but during that time my 3 mm carbon steel pan gets so hot that the high smokepoint oil starts to smoke. I don’t want to move to a smaller burner, because then the wide pan will heat less even.

Now to my question. Does a thicker cast iron pan (6 mm) store more heat in a way that decrease the risk of burning the oil? Or is it only a matter of time - the oil will get burned in the thicker cast iron pan too but a few minutes later? 

In other words: if the heat source settings are the same, will a thinner pan give you a more intense heat and a thicker one in the same material give you a more gentle heat?

For example, when I bake bread in the oven, the underside of the bread will get burned if it sits on a thin steel plate, but if I put it on a thick cast iron pan instead the underside will get a nice, golden colour. 

/Martin, Sweden

Answer

Yes, all other things being equal, a thicker pan will heat more evenly than a thinner pan. In the case of your gas cooktop, I'm a 6 mm cast iron pan will heat more evenly than 3 mm cast iron pan of equal diameter. And more evenly than a 3 mm carbon steel pan, as well. 

Much depends on the specific material you're using as well as the heat source, of course. Preventing scorching relies on the material being reasonably conductive. If you heat both a 3 mm and 6 mm cast iron pan to the same temperature to sear a steak, the thicker pan will be more evenly heated (and of course take longer to reach the target temperature), but it may still scorch simply by virtue of cast iron not spreading the heat as evenly as other materials.

If you wish to minimize these hot spots, I suggest pre-heating the skillet in the oven or using a pan with more conductive material – preferably aluminum or copper.

Answer

Thank you for your replies! Yesterday I put TWO grates upon each other over the widest burner to move the pan away from the heat a bit. It helped.

/Martin

Answer

“Does a thicker cast iron pan (6 mm) store more heat in a way that decrease the risk of burning the oil?” Yes! The thicker pan allows you to increase the total heat capacity without raising the temperature. 

Everything is a matter of time. Until you reach some sort of equilibrium where the pan is so big in relation to the burner that the heat given off the surface matches the heat from the flame. 

Ovens (in a way) don’t count because they have a thermostat that controls temperature.

Answer

No, not really. Let me try to explain using an extreme example.

Assume two pans of equal size and construction. One is infinitely thin, the other as thick as can be made and still hold a petit fillet mignon. Heat them to a center surface temperature of, e.g., 400F and adjust the hob to hold that same temperature. Get your steak ready.

At the flop, the gossamer-thin pan--no matter the material--will store almost no heat to contribute to your sear. It functions mostly as a barrier between hob and food. The heat to sear is almost entirely from the hob. And because the floor is so thin to be basically 2-dimensional, virtually all the hob's heat will be orthogonal--straight up through the floor. This is a cook-as-you-go exercise--your steak will be done when enough heat passes directly from hob to food.

In contrast, the absurdly thick pan stores a rather large amount of heat. This is additive heat to what the hob is providing, and if the pan construction is highly conductive, your steak will draw heat not only directly from the orthogonal replenishment, but also indirectly from the surrounding areas. In fact, make that conductive pan thick enough, and you might find that you need no replenishment heat from the hob at all.

Your OP suggests you are (a) not cooking by temperature; and (b) you are not adjusting the setting as you cook. Returning to our example, the infinitely thin pan will tend to spike in temperature and scorch much faster that the thick one. This is mostly because the thin one will preheat (if you can call it that) lightning fast and there is effectively nowhere for the heat to go before it scorches. Whereas with the thick one, it will take longer to preheat, move heat laterally better, AND better dissipate "excess" heat into the room.

"Does a thicker cast iron pan (6 mm) store more heat in a way that decrease the risk of burning the oil?" No. It stores more heat, yes. And it better *diffuses* the heat from the hob. 

"Or is it only a matter of time - the oil will get burned in the thicker cast iron pan too but a few minutes later?" Yes, this is mostly true, although it depends on the setting and several other factors. This is also at work with disk base pans that--once preheated--tend to accumulate heat and can spike.

"[I]f the heat source settings are the same, will a thinner pan give you a more intense heat and a thicker one in the same material give you a more gentle heat?" If by that you mean a faster and more concentrated heat, yes.

I hope this helps.

Answer

Based on experience only, I believe the answer is yes. However, I don't think the science behind why it works is as you've stated.

From your description, it sounds like your minimal gas flame is actually quite hot for your pan. Oil smoked at relatively high temperature. A thicker pan won't be lower in temperature or anything, it just takes longer to heat up and cool down. It also has a larger capacity to hold heat due to its mass.

The practical answer is yes. A thicker pan is going to get you the result you want, but probably not for the reasons you've laid out.

Answer

"Does a thicker cast iron pan (6 mm) store more heat in a way that decrease the risk of burning the oil?"

These are 2 separate questions. 

First one is easy. Check out this primer on cookware by Sam Kinsey: https://forums.egullet.org/topic/25717-understanding-stovetop-cookware/ Looking only at heat capacity, one can calculate that in your example, and with a 28 cm diameter pan, the heat capacity of 6mm cast iron (1303) will be almost double that of 3mm carbon steel (696). So, yes the cast iron will hold more heat. 

The second question is a bit more difficult: how can you prevent burning the oil? In my view, picking either cast iron or carbon steel won't make any difference. Because the answer is: keep on adjusting the heat to balance a nice crust without risking oil to burn. 

I admit, this is quite hard in practice because it depends on a lot of factors. For example the choice of burner, how much you have preheated the pan, and how quickly you can anticipate to adjust the flame (i.e. the cook's skill). 

My trick to prevent oil burning is to not preheat the pan too much. Whether it's enameled cast iron or carbon steel, learning this has resulted in me hardly making any mistakes anymore. I'm one of the few on this board advocating this approach, e.g. Claus has recently stated that he preheats carbon steel for 10 minutes, but somehow we both arrive at good results. Perhaps it has to do with me having strong gas burners so I can always quickly up the heat. 

My advice would be to just experiment some more with carbon steel to find out what works for *you*. What worked for me in learning to manage heat in carbon steel cookware is frying a whole flat fish in butter, as done here https://youtu.be/5S5j5nmP7oM?t=417. Notice how he sometimes takes the pan off the heat by tilting it and keeps the butter at the edge of the pan (where it's the least hot). FWIW if I needed to sear a piece of meat before putting it in the oven I'd use either my De Buyer carbon steel or my Mauviel copper pan.

Answer

Thank you all for your replies! They have been helpful, even though you do not always completely agree. Thanks damiano for the article and the Youtube film. I have already done some experimenting and will continue doing it.

Claus, the unsalted butter thing was new to me too. I googled it and got it confirmed from different sources.

/Martin

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