Bittman's No-Knead Bread...Wow!
I can't wait to try this. It may be the answer to my prayers!
Kagey
Nov 08, 2006 10:42AM
On last.fm:
Listen to Free Online Radio
Browsing on your mobile phone? Take a look at our mobile edition »
I can't wait to try this. It may be the answer to my prayers!
Kagey
Nov 08, 2006 10:42AM
Wow! I have never heard of such a tecnique!
Even though I love the peace and quiet of my kitchen when it is just me and the yeasty dough I am kneading the recipe's description of the crust is enough!
I will definatley try this one.
Jenna
Permalink | Reply
Just logged on to ask a question about this.
Do you guys think you can make this with a mix of whole wheat, white whole wheat, and soy(only 1/4c) flours? I make 2 loaves of a dense, wheaty bread every week and while i'd like to try Bittman's recipe, I really don't want to be making a white bread. I always also add 1/2c oatmeal, 1/4c millet, 1/4c flax. While i'm satisfied with this, and in fact love it, i'd like to try his method whilst still ending up with something whole wheaty. I'm happy to forego the oats, soy, millet, and flax for a week, but prefer to keep the whole wheat flours.
thanks!
Permalink | Reply
Bittman himself says that "I’ve played with whole-wheat and rye flours, too; the results are fantastic." So I imagine that your mix would be fine. Can't wait to try this technique!
Permalink | Reply
Do you have the link to see this Video? I would like to see how it looks after the 12 hours.
Thanking you in Advance
Grace
Im very new on this board and I would like to know if there is a answer to my question and will I be notified by E-Mail
Permalink | Reply
Look here.
http://www.chowhound.com/topics/34561...
Permalink | Reply
He writes in that article that wheat and rye flours are fine to use.
Permalink | Reply
I have made the bread with 100% whole wheat flour and I have added walnuts, raisins and honey! I also have increased the amount of salt since I found that the plain loaf tasted too bland with the small amount of salt in the original recipe! I also have increased the amount of yeast to 1/2 of a teaspoon instead of 1/4 because I thought that the whole wheat flour might need more "lift"! The results have been spectacular!
Permalink | Reply
Well, I couldn't wait! I didn't have bread flour around, just whole wheat and rye, so I'm trying 2 cups whole wheat + 1 cup rye. I don't see the point of instant yeast, so I dissolved 1/4 tsp regular active dry yeast in the water before adding it. The resulting dough was VERY wet--in fact, more like a batter than a dough; I don't know if it's the difference in flours or that it's actually supposed to be like that.
I wish Bittman had given the whole-grains version he found "fantastic", since I'd like to know if he used all whole grain flours or just a mix of white and wheat, and in what proportions. Also wish he'd given weights as well as measures, since flour volume can vary widely. I find it much easier and more reliable to throw flour into a bowl on my scale and know I'm using the exact same amount every time. Will report back tomorrow when it's baked!
Permalink | Reply
please do report!
TorontoJo--thanks for pointing that out. I've always been told i read too fast!!
Permalink | Reply
Bittman does indicate that his dough was also very wet. Can't wait to find out about your loaf. This whole idea is magnif and Bittman strikes again!
Permalink | Reply
Watch the video linked in the article. They show the bread at all the important stages so you can see just how wet it is.
Permalink | Reply
He said you don't have to use bread flour, that AP was OK.
Permalink | Reply
I couldn't wait either and started a loaf this morning (I also posted a note about it, not realizing that Kagey had already done so!)
- Sean
Permalink | Reply
I'm going to try it tomorrow. It sounds like the answer to our prayers. It would be so great to just be able to whip up such an easy sounding bread - really! I loved it when Bittman said the ancient Egyptians made bread by mixing it with a hoe.
Permalink | Reply
They mention Le Creuset in the article and show it in the pics. They also mention a 450 degree oven temp, yet the LC "plastic" knobs are only rated to 400 degrees. I don't want to melt mine of course, so are there any suggestions? Has anyone ever had any trouble with LC knobs melting?
Permalink | Reply
By the way, in the video, he mentions a temp of 500 or 515.
Permalink | Reply
Yikes! 500!? It almost seems like it would burn after 45 minutes to an hour at those temps. I think the safest and easiest bet is to unscrew the knob. That way I won't have to even think about it.
Permalink | Reply
Btw, maybe they've changed, but current LC knobs are rated oven safe to 450F. And you can unscrew them and plug the hole with foil; you'd need to remove the hot cover with mitts instead, but that is quite workable.
Permalink | Reply
Try wrapping the knob in heavy duty aluminum foil.It works for me.
Permalink | Reply
Good thinking...
Permalink | Reply
why would foil be a good idea? the knob will still get heated to oven temperature, no?
Permalink | Reply
Don't miss the VIDEOS!! After the five minute video on this bread making technique, the next one is on pork braised in red wine. You could loose a whole day this way. Now it's eggs pouched in red wine.
Permalink | Reply
so i read this article and then started a batch. but i have a few questions for you seasoned bread bakers out there.
I already felt that wet dough produces better bread, so i have been making a wet dough and kneading it in the bowl of my kichenaid, then letting it rise in the same bowl in the fridge overnight. I'm just curious about the kneading/no kneading thing--is it just that no kneading is easier than kneading, or that no kneading actually produces better bread than kneading?
also, what would happen if i let the dough rise for about 12 hours and then put it in the fridge overnight and took it out the next morning, shaped it, and let it rise again? otherwise, my timing will be off and I will be baking bread too early. also, what about letting it rise for 24 hours instead of 18 but in a cooler spot?
seems to me the hardest part of this recipe is getting the timing right.
Permalink | Reply
I think the 24 would work in a cooler spot. Give it a go--no great loss if it doesn't work!
I'm wondering if I can do something similar with my sourdough starter. Might try it out...
Permalink | Reply
Bittman says 24 hours is fine in his follow-up "fine-tuning" article.
He also says that using half whole-wheat or other flour works fine.
Permalink | Reply
no kneading is equivalent to kneading if you let it hang out longer (a shorter version of this, anywhere from 15-30 minutes is called an autolyse in bread terms -- originally invented to conserve electricity!). if you do the 12-hr rise at room temp, put it in the fridge (called retarding), divided, shaped it, and did a final proof, that should be fine. also rising for 24 hours in a cooler spot would be fine, but you'll want to increase your yeast amount. once the yeast is activated, it gets used, and with a long, even cool, fermentation, you'll want your yeast to still be somewhat active when you put that dough in the oven.
Permalink | Reply
I've always made bread this way, with some modifications. I make a sponge the night before: for about 3 pounds of bread, or two substantial loaves, I start the dough with 1/4 tsp. yeast, 3 cups water and 3 1/2 cups unbleached all purpose flour (King Arthur's or Hecker's.) Stir vigorously 200 strokes with a wooden spoon to get the gluten going, then cover with a damp towel and put in a cool place overnight. The next day, I follow basically all of Mr. Bittman's suggestions. The yeast has had a head start overnight making new yeasties, and the final dough has a better tinge of sourness.
Following the suggestions of Elizabeth David, I usually toast the flours for about 15 minutes in a moderate oven, which gives the bread greater depth of flavor, and I often use about a third of whole wheat flour or graham flour. And sometimes I decide that that really want whole wheat bread loaves, so then I use half ap, half ww. Slow, cool rising is key.
Permalink | Reply
That's big news to me about toasting the flour. At what temp? How deep do you spred it out? On a cookie sheet?
Permalink | Reply
I use half sheet pans at 325 degrees and stir the flour every 5 minutes. By the by, Elizabeth David's "English Bread and Yeast Cookery" is the absolutely definitive book on bread baking.
Permalink | Reply
For how long do you toast the flour? What color are you aiming for? I'd be afraid that I would burn the flour and make a huge mess!
But I am intrigued!
Permalink | Reply
I was excited by this article too. It's so much fun to try new bread-baking techniques. The only pot I have that might work is an All-Clad stainless 5.5 qt dutch oven. Any reason it wouldn't work? I don't think it has the thermal mass of an enameled or cast-iron pot, but don't know if that's a deal-breaker.
Permalink | Reply
It seems that the critical things are high pre-heat and good moisture seal. I don't get the impression that the mass is so important since it goes back in the hot oven.
Permalink | Reply
The aluminum pan won't retain heat as well as cast iron, which means that it'll lose heat (despite being preheated) when the cool dough hits it and the bread probably won't crust up as nicely.
Permalink | Reply
I agree, it probably wouldn't work. The recipe's "heavy covered pot (cast iron, enamel, Pyrex or ceramic)" probably reflects Lahey's experimentation.
Permalink | Reply
I used my Calphalon anodized dutch oven and it worked beautifully. Of course, my oven has a pizza stone in it, so that also keeps the temp constant. Use what you've got and see how it comes out.
Permalink | Reply
My dough is rising (slowly) as I write. I started it at 1:30 today and will bake tomorrow morning. I have the morning off without my kids weeee!, so it will be nice to bake the loaf. Only problem is - I can't stop checking on it. will keep you posted.
Permalink | Reply
There's a book that embraces the no-knead technique; the author also uses very wet batters, usually a sponge made 12 hours ahead and an initial refrigerated rise of 12 hours.
It's called "No Need to Knead: Handmade Italian Breads in 90 Minutes," by Suzanne Dunaway. The title is a bit misleading, in that the book starts off with recipes for Italian breads, but also covers many others, ever IIRC a few quickbreads, and while she gives quick options for some recipes, she advocates the long, slow rise for better flavor and requires it for structure in many recipes.
http://www.amazon.com/No-Need-Knead-H...
Permalink | Reply
I had that book some years ago, and I could never get satisfactory results from the recipes. I don't always think it was pilot error.
Permalink | Reply
Anyone who also reads the Cook's Illustrated's board as well will know that I just copied and pasted my response from there. What can I say, I am tired from making the bread last night :).
Well yesterday I got very excited reading about this bread. I immediately started it, and did the math later. This required to wake up at 2:00, 4:00, 4:30, and 5:00. That I do not recommend. However, The bread looks great. I used all ap flour because that was listed first in the recipe. I cooked it in my 6-quart LC dutch oven. I preheated it properly, and had no problems with the temp. changes.
It was ready at about 45 minutes. I used my thermopen to check internal temperature. I pulled it at about 200 degrees. It is beautiful. The bottom and top are browned perfectly. It released from the pan with 0 effort. It was already loose. When I took it out of the oven and put it on a rack, it started making those wonderful crackling noises. When I try a piece I'll let you know how the taste is.
I think I might love this!
-Becca
Permalink | Reply
Thanks for reporting back...how did it taste??
Is it typical to take bread out at 200 degrees internal? Never heard of that before.
I read the article and watched the video and can't wait to try this!! I have all the ingredients on hand so hope to make it after work today. Any other reports or tips out there?
Permalink | Reply
I have 180 engrained in my head. I don't know if I read that on the King Arthur side, The Bread Bible, or what. It's just one of those things I remember, though I haven't tried it yet.
Permalink | Reply
That's funny! I remember 190 to 205!! And everybody else seems to go higher.
Permalink | Reply
I remembered it around 200 degrees. I looked it up in The Bread Bible. Those are RLB's numbers.
Permalink | Reply
Two (more) questions about this bread-- once you open the little foil pack of dry yeast, to use 1/4 teaspoon, can the rest be saved if kept airtight?
Also, does the texture of the crust have anything to do with the actual flavor/texture of the bread? Can you make a lousy crust with great interior, or vice versa?
Permalink | Reply
The recipe calls for instant yeast. The yeast that comes in the little foil packages is active dry...it usually needs to proof before you add it to your dough. Instant yeast can be directly added to your dough.
The activity of both types of yeast is not equivalent. In general, instant yeast has 3 times the activity of an equal measure of active dry yeast.
Permalink | Reply
Just put the yeast packet in a ziploc bag and put it in the freezer.
Yes, I am sure you can make a bad bread with a great crust. Though I never have had it happen to me.
Permalink | Reply
200-211 is the preferred range for hearth or artisan style breads. I shoot for 200 degrees, and this time is was about 205 when I checked it. It is the best way to determine when bread is done.
Brioche and other egg-rich doughs are ready at 180-190 degrees.
I just ate a small piece but it tasted great. The texture was a little eggy even though it was eggless. I guess because it is such a wet dough. I need to try it with a meal.
-Becca
Permalink | Reply
I'm eager to try this, but don't have a Le Cruset or large cast iron pot. (They are on the wish list!)
Any ideas for suitable alternatives? I have a tratamonia dutch oven, a cermaic pot w/ lid, and a an asian clay pot w/ lid (lined).
Thanks for your help, I'm hopeful one of these will work so that I can try this bread!
Permalink | Reply
I think it would work in any lidded pot that can go into the oven at high temperatures. I was tempted to use my Le Creuset ceramic oven-safe pot, but it's a bit small for the purpose.
Permalink | Reply
i have a cast iron soul kettle that should be big enough, but it has a glass lid. wondering if it will withstand the better part of an hour at 450-degrees. would appreciate a report if anyone has tried.
thanks.
Permalink | Reply
Don't use Asian clay pot it will crack for sure under high heat.
Permalink | Reply
This is my first time to this site. We just moved to Sioux Falls from Southern California and I had a dream about our most all time favorite ice cream - Thrifty's Double Chocolate Malted Crunch. So I went on line to see if they had it here in the mid-west. This is the site Google brought me too. What a great website. My question? Where can I get the recipe for Bittman's No-Knead Bread. I am interested in making good homemade whole/grain wheat breads.
Thanks
Permalink | Reply
The link is in the very 1st post on this thread. When you go to the NY Times website, look to the left of the page for the 2nd link to the recipe. Watch the video, too.
There is a 2nd thread started recently about the results of people baking. Wonderful postings and great tips.
Happy baking!
Permalink | Reply
You can click the link in the original post, for the NY Times. If you haven't done free registration with the Times website, it may (like most major newspapers) prompt you to register (again, for free) in order to view the recipe and accompanying article that is valuable to read.
Permalink | Reply
Mine is in the oven! I'll post when it's out and when I've eaten some...
Permalink | Reply
It's out! And it's good. Great texture. I think mine could have stood another 10-15 minutes of baking at least (I went for about 50 minutes, 20 uncovered). The biggest change for next time will be to not dust it with corn meal but use flour instead... I'm not wild about the crust with the corn meal.
Permalink | Reply