Cluck Grunt and Low Review
Went last night with friends in hopes of some good bbq and a chance to catch up in a lively atmosphere. Can't say I'll be heading back any time soon.
Things started well - great smells, busy restaurant, fun music. As one of our group of four is from out of town we did have that time after sitting down where we were talking and not paying enough attention to the menu. Our server came over to ask if we were ready several times. I like we weren't forgotten, but it was several times within 10 minutes or so. Menu is short, but no sampling platter was on offer which I thought was a shame. We decided we would each order a different dish and share around to compensate. When we went to order though, we were then told that there was no cornbread or beans for side dishes, something that could have been mentioned in the numerous pre vists our server had made. When I asked if we might use a smaller salad as a side dish I was answered with a curt 'no'. Apparently they had been out all day and yet hadn't come up with a substitution or compromise. That left coleslaw, potato salad and dirty rice as sides. When I asked what the most popular dish was I got a shrug and 'pork ribs' response. There was no attempt to elaborate or offer me anything more to go by.
Just after we ordered, server came back to tell us there were beans after all and would we like him to bring two orders with the food. Of course we would.
Food came out almost instantly which was a little surprising and everything seemed warm, but not hot. Potatoes in the salad were practically crunchy, coleslaw was swimming in liquid. Beans were okay (but really, if they were out all day, where did they suddenly come from?) and dirty rice was, again, okay. Beef ribs were tender and fairly decent, the sweet and sticky pork ribs were not sticky enough though the meat was alright. Dry ribs are not my favourite, but the others found them to be 'pretty good'. Half chicken was tender but didn't distinguish itself much from Swiss Chalet - just a slightly different spice mix. I'm not deliberately being vague about flavours - they were just so devoid of obvious descriptors. The taste did not live up to the aromas.
Our server cleared dishes away from 3 of us while one was still eating. Came back a few minutes later to clear away side dishes while the 4th was still eating. It happened so fast that we couldn't stop him - the 4th said he should probably finish anyway, but it would have been nice for him to come to that conclusion without the food being whisked away.
Bill came on an American Express tray. Put out AmEx card to be told they don't take AmEx. Okaaaaay.
I realize the place is new, and perhaps they need to sort out their inventory needs, but there was no need to leave us uninformed of menu changes and no excuse to not offer a backup plan for sides or even an apology. All through the meal, the music volume was raised so that by the time we were finishing, we had to shout across a table of 4 to be heard over Johnny Cash.
I would have to hear there had been a massive improvement in taste and service before I ventured back.
Julie McCoy
Jul 18, 2007 06:25AM
The one constant I have heard about this restaurant is that they are out of cornbread. I wonder if they have it at all?
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Finally, an opportunity to real southern BBQ in TO and owners with good credentials. But so far, I haven't read one positive thing about this place. What a disappointment.
However, I'm waiting two months and then I'll give it a try, but I'm not holding my breath. If the food is so-so right out of the gate, after all the work they've done pulling the concept and place together, it's not looking good.
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I feel the exact same way acd. I went on day 2 and decided to give them a month or two. It is no home run that is for sure. But they are smart people and they can surely improve the product. I am still routing for them!!
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Seems we both had a similar experience.
I wanted to write my own detailed review this morning, but you beat me to it. The food was horrific. The Kansas City Sweet and Sticky Pork ribs were so dry as to be inedible. Honestly, I wouldn't have fed them to my dog. They had clearly been cooked VERY early on and then before serving them to me, had them doused with bbq sauce to cover this up. The potato salad was crunchy, too heavy on the cumin, and appeared to be yesterday's batch in the freshness department. Ditto for the coleslaw. And like others have experienced, no cornbread. Wow, what a big surprise.
I am so completely fed up with the "celebrity" chefs in this town. The so-called pedigreed chefs; Paul Boehmer and Marc Thuet? Give me a break. DO NOT TALK THE TALK IF YOU CAN'T WALK THE WALK.
I think a bunch of lawyers decided to get together and play restaurant cause they were bored, with too much "money" on their hands if you catch my drift.
And ok, I love the man in black, but nothing innovative in the music department there. How bout playing some Muddy Waters, R.L. Burnside, or Ry Cooder to go with the Q food.
I give this place 2 months, tops.
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I ate there last night too. The potato salad was seriously crunchy and they were out of cornbread which we only learned after we tried to order it. I found the dry rub ribs to be very dry. I had two ribs that I couldn't pull (break?) apart - bad sign. I was scared that if I pulled harder one of them was going to go flying across the room. I live nearby and love bbq and really want to see this place succeed. I liked the friendly staff and room, but I think the kitchen needs to check the food before it goes out.
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Reread my post, I apologize...seems I'm suffering from some rageahol.
The service was indeed friendly, so no complaints at all there.
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Even though I think it is too soon to be so harsh and predict 2 months life for this type of resto, I have to agree that the rage is justified. Believing that Paul Boehmer and Marc Thuet are truly involved in the kitchen and recipes, I expect the first weeks to be good-to-great, and then in a month, great-to-fantastic.
I am hoping we can still get to fantastic in August!
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I tried this place last weekend and I wasn't impressed. The ribs were cold. Obviously they get thrown on when an order is placed but they didn't get thrown on for nearly long enough. Both rib types were totally forgettable - far inferior to Phils in my opinion (and I'm not a big Phil's fan).
Service was fine but way to many staff wandering around with nothing to do. I can't imagine the ribs getting better since I think they have fundamental problems that won't be solved with time and ironing out the kinks. I might try them again in a couple of months depending on what I hear on this board.
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I also am a neighbour of CGL and madly curious. I will wait before going in though the smells are tempting...but I don't understand why cornbread should be such a challenge...I am wondering if it is possible they don't have a working oven/stove onsite. The lack of cornbread (needs an oven), the "crunchy" potato salad (caused by microwaving instead of stovetop boiling of potatoes) and the suddeness and unpredictable appearance of beans all suggest this arrival-from-somplace-offsite approach. At the prices they are charging, this is serious food prep "cheating".
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Excellent theory. Was especially struck by the fact that there's a Dominion across the street and yet they couldn't make cornbread - your theory would cover that off.....
And re: the whole 'being new' thing. By all means I understand that you need to get into a rhythm and see how things unfold when you are a new restaurant. But there's no reason that attentive, helpful service that acknowledges its hopefully temporary shortcomings wasn't on offer. There are many times I have overlooked weaknesses in food due to good service and given the place another try. I just couldn't help but feel they were getting the easy stuff wrong.
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i'm starting to find this place ridiculous and i haven't even visited yet...
after over 3 months of constructing this place could they not have an oven! i'd laugh if they were doing baked beans and cornbread at thuet.
so c'mon everyone.... tell me how the smoke is! no one's mentioned it and that's rather suspect. if it can compete with what's coming off of my balcony then kudos... mine do however make my condo reek of smoke from just leaving a bowl of congealed juices out.
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No one's mentioned smoke because there is no discernable smoke flavor. At least not in the pork ribs I had. And cornbread? I haven't read one post where someone actually had it. Cluck, Grunt and Low = Smoke, Mirrors and Amateurs.
Can't emphasize enough: Avoid, avoid, avoid.
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Princess,
Here's why there is no discernable smoke flavour [from their site]:
"Hint: its a blend of domestic fruit woods with an occasional hardwood accent"
They state this with pride! They are using cheap and relatively flavourless woods for beef & pork. Likely apple and maybe some cherry and "occasionally" maple.
What you are using on your balcony is likely good quality woods like oak, hickory, mesquite and the like.
Wish I could have some of your smoked meat ;)
Chow!
HL.
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Harry, with respect to PSP who's probably a fine smoker, blending woods is an art form in itself. You can weave all manner of layers in. Even lighter woods have their place. However, if you can't smell smoke coming from CG&L they I'd wager they ain't usin' any.
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I too am disappointed by CGL after the months of hype leading up to it. I went last weekend with a friend and our experience was very much similar to everyone's reports (no cornbread, dry pork ribs, crunchy potato salad).
One thing that no one has mentioned is the baked beans. They seemed quite firm to me, and when I mentioned it to one of the servers, he said that they were fresh beans and assured me they were properly cooked. I'm used to the texture of canned baked beans which are very tender. Does anyone know if "authentic" baked beans are supposed to be tender or firm?
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It's hard to respond to this post without resort to Mel Brooks, Blazing Saddles, and the immortal line delivered by former rodeo star Slim Pickens. But let me do so. (Note to self, why do so many discussions evoke images of Frasier and Niles, and the underlying desire to swack both with a cricket bat).
The cookedness of the beans is best judged by the atmospheric experience upon exit.
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I had the beans at CGL too. They were definitely undercooked. They should not be that hard and they are not that way in Chicago, Kansas, Memphis or Mississippi.
Besides, they were too firm to be completely enjoyable.
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Beans are hard to pin down because so many people have differing opinions. However from my experience good beans are cooked to the point when you have them in your mouth and your tongue is able to "squish" the bean on the roof of your mouth with some resistance. If the beans do not offer resistance and lack a slight firmness, then they are overdone.
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agreed. most of the beans were hard - not at all squishy.
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le sigh. I was hoping to hear better things of CG & L...
Guess I'll just have to keep cookin' my own beans n' bread.
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Went back tonight (a month too soon). Hard beans, hard potato salad but they finally had the cornbread - if only it was heated. I didnt like the coldish dry nature of it. Worse was that my beef ribs arrived cold - I mean fat congealed cold! The waitress was very apologetic. My ribs were heated and re-served. Fatty, bland and completely unmemorable. My friends had pulled pork which was perfect.
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So I just found out-and as don't see it mentioned here- that one of the owners is from the Spoke Club, he wanted to be "busy"- sounds like he's too busy to take note of how bad the food is. ( I believe the article was in the recent issue of the post-which I just recycled..)
ALSO- the ribs are done by/at Thuet & finished at CGL
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Yes, the smoker/oven question is now officially resolved per the North Toronto Post's current interview with management. This place doesn't even cook on site. It seems that the food is cooked/smoked/baked/whatevered at Atelier Thuet and reheated before serving. It's a food delivered from a commissary operation. It isn't even a real restaurant, and this setup would explain the types of problems people are reporting. Their employees would need less cooking skill than the line staff at a fast food place. They claim to have convection ovens, though a microwave would probably do the job as well.
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Well, this place has definitely earned a pass. Phil's remains the de facto winner in the GTA.
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Sad, but true...heading back to Phil's...sigh...
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I thought Thuet had balls - but now he has really insulted the people of Toronto. Give me a break. He can have his crunchy beans, cold ribs and tasteless crap.
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LOL WHAT A JOKE!
With that much handling, the meat just dries out!
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Bohemer hasn't been employed at the Spoke for some time now... at least 6 months or more. This restaurant concept came after him leaving the Spoke. Not to mention, he's no longer affiliated with C, G&L.
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I have to say I haven`t been and have no plans to either. Especially after reading all the reviews.
For the record cooked beans are tender.....they obviously rushed them and they were finshed being cooked.
there is a great BBQ place on College st
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Despite the reviews I (in hope) ventured down last night - it was full all evening (on a Tuesday night). And a full menu was available too.
Service was pretty good too. Even asked how we liked it and listened to the response.
And some interesting menu items. Even had lamb ribs - a first for me (Cluck, Grunt, Low and Baa?).
Here's the good news.
Buster Keaton was featured on the video screen (Goes West - a rarity).
The salad was also passable - the bacon bits were nicely smoky.
And we finshed the Asian Style ribs (despite the significant amount of cartilage).
Didn't (wouldn't) finish the rest!
Beans were OK (but boring). Biscuit was very dry. Dirty Rice was inedible. Memphis dry rub ribs were the worst version I've had. Dried out meat and the heat existed but no layers of chile flavour. Lamb ribs were tough and fatty - although the sweet/mint sauce was pretty good.
Essentially the meat was all pretty bad - what is Thuet up to? I'd never buy from the Atelier based on this example.
Still not sure why I went - I guess I hoped there had been an improvement now that they've been open for a month.
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Thanks for the review. Seems like they've added a few things to the menu, the lamb ribs were not there when I went during their opening week. I too did not enjoy my experience, I posted my review on the other thread a few weeks/month back. Funny thing is I'm a HUGE Thuet fan, unlike many boardies I've had fantastic experiences with Thuet's blind tasting menus as well as at Atelier. I'm hoping the place improves, but until I read some stellar reviews and hear positive "street talk" I have no reason to go out of my way to this place.
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Absolutely fawning review in Eye magazine today:
http://www.eyeweekly.com/eye/issue/is...
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That is one entertaining review, give that intern a gold star! Not that Eye has ever had any kind of credible food writing other than Konrad Ejbich's Drinks column.
I especially enjoyed the gushing about the authentic roadhouse decor. What's next, a review of Montana's Cookhouse? I wait with baited breath to see if the moose and deer really do talk to each other. And while I'm a fan of Billy Bragg, I'm pretty sure England's favourite punk/folk socialist is not authentic roadhouse.
I keep waiting for a decent word about this place, and still nothing. Unfortunately, this is not the review to convince me to go.
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Pantz... very funny about Konrad Ejbich.... I always wondered how Eye landed him ( a completely rational, well-informed, unpretentious guy) as a drinks columnist, and yet suffered through and allowed to publish food columnists of risible knowledge. I recall one who dissed a place because, as a 'west-ender', she once had to venture east of Yonge. Nothing decent east of Yonge, she declared.
And re: Billy Bragg... I suspect a good fry-up, not BBQ, would be his choice.
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Given what seems like a disproportionately negative response to CGL, I figure it might be worthwhile to share my opinion, which was positive. Timing of our visit was prior to Boehmer's departure (and perhaps some menu changes - there weren't lamb ribs on the menu at the time, for instance). Service was friendly. Food was a little slow getting out but we weren't in a rush and timing issues should probably be expected early in a restaurant's lifetime. Tankhouse on tap is always welcome. On to the chow...
We shared the potato salad and beans sides. As was the case for others, corn bread was MIA and not a choice. Potato salad was excellent with a hint of cumin flavour, making it a little more interesting than the standard run of the mill version. The beans were more ordinary but no problems on the execution (i.e. ours weren't hard). For mains, I had the dry rub ribs which were excellent, while my wife had the beef ribs that she really enjoyed.
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Are these reviews for CG&L on Bloor St, or is there another one??
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bloor is the only one
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I had a similar experience, but Im not expecting first rate anything from a BBQ joint. In fact, I dont want that.. I want good food at TIMELY service. The rest is extras I dont care for when getting down and dirty with BBQ. CGL took care of that so, how was the food? Not terrible, but not great either. The ribs were scorched I would say, so they were bad. We also had the brisket, which was good. There was no corn bread (its my username!). The beans I didnt care since they were still quite firm and the flavouring was not strong at at all, but some may enjoy that style.
THis place needs a kick in the ass to get it going.
Im not sure where the food research was done but it
The sauce needs work that is for sure, also.
Im from Vancouver, and there is a BBQ place called Memphis BLues. The service is sometimes near rude, but the food keep everyone coming back. Nothing like that in TO? Im craving good BBQ.
(I must say though, the MC brand Chipolte BBQ sauce is very good for a no name brand!)
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Well we ventured out last night to Cluck Grunt and Low. Shouldn't it be Cluck, Grunt and Moo? I guess I am missing something about 'dem animals. First, I owe my husband a huge apology because I did not do my Chowhound due diligence. This is after constantly raving about the Chowhound website. We shared the combo platter and each had coleslaw. We didn't even eat half of the combo as it was so bad. At $40.00 we also found it to be skimpy. As an aside, in these times where we are concerned about super viruses, SARS, and safety of imported food from China, I think it is bad hygiene that you can stick your used knives in the various sauces (I noticed not everyone in the resto "pouring" the sauce) which stay on the table for the next patrons. How hard would it be to put out small servings of the sauce? My husbands ribs "benchmark" are the mexican ones at The Steak Pit, which I personallly think are better than Phils (he has never been to Phils), and the ones at CG and L didn't come even remotely close. We found the coleslaw almost rancid tasting (maybe too much cumin). We will never go back. We are very dissapointed because we love going down to Bloor and Spadina and think it is an awesome neighbourhood.
The highlight of the evening was hitting Gregs ice cream for some wonderful roasted marshmallow and coffee toffee.
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Your husband's benchmark ribs are the so-called Mexican ones at Steak Pit?? And CGL was worse?? Houston, we have a problem...
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Fwagra, I am not kidding and I have to agree with him on this one.
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I was excited to check it out since I live nearby, but was totally disappointed. The atmosphere was ok but the food was sub-mediocre.
I had a pulled pork sandwich on a dried-out bun for $7.50 (the coleslaw in it tasted like the store-bought kind in a tub). It came with a small chunk of grilled corn on the cob. Very boring in presentation, and some of the food at other tables looked totally awful (the wings especially looked dried out).
The biggest disappointment was my friend's order of macaroni and cheese... it was $10 on the menu, meaning we thought it would at least be a small meal size! Nope, it was TINY, so small we were all laughing. It was supposed to come with sausage, which turned out to be teeny chunks you could barely see. On our bill the mac&cheese showed up as $8, not sure if that was a mistake or because people had already complained...
The server was fairly nice until we told her (very politely) that she could mention to the management that the portion seemed a bit small. then she got defensive and said "well, most people find it very filling" and "perhaps you have more of an appetite for cheese than the average person". Nice.
Don't bother with this restaurant. Guess I'll have to wait for my trip to Texas to get some real barbeque.
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The whole place is terribly disappointing!
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So Phil's remains the go-to place. Thankfully there is one.
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Actually Phil's is a 'If you have to' place rather than a 'go to'.
Even if it is the best in T.O. that's hardly a recommendation!
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Barely, though...
And the "Kansas City Smokehouse" signs that have been on the vacant place at Danforth & Ferrier since the beginning of the year have been replaced by signs that say "New home of Danforth Mr Greek...franchise inquiries invited".
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The review is somewhat accurate as my experience but I was a bit more positive. The dry ribs I had were pretty damn good and usually I am not impressed by dry ribs.. they had a distinct jerk taste to them that I enjoyed. I did get the sides I asked for, the cornbread (yum yum greasy with bacon !!) and the beans. But the others had to make second choices. The service was kinda pushy fast but friendly. Elbow to elbow seating was not fun as a child kept on snapping me in the back of the head. Not a grand experience but pretty good.
I also have to say it was a much better choice than my forced upon visit to the new St. Louis chain version down the street after a 40 min wait for my second visit.
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Before reading this thread we almost went to Cluck Grunt and Low the other day. Good thing we decided to keep on walking west and ended up on the patio at the By the Way cafe and had a far better meal.
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Good call- love that place- time to go there again & write a review-*searches* unless you'd like the honours to start one, jean Georges- i don't see a BTWC thread yet!
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I stopped in to CG&L last night because I happened to be in the neighbourhood and I'd heard good-to-mixed reviews from friends who'd gone. The service was fine -- friendly and diligent without being fake and hovering. I ordered the half-slab of Memphis Dry Ribs with cornbread and dirty rice as my sides.
I didn't find them horrible, but I didn't find them outstanding either. The ribs weren't dried out, thankfully, but I didn't find a whole lot of flavour to them. The add-your-own sauce helped enormously (and yes, I poured -- didn't dig in with my knife!) As for the sides: the cornbread was tasty, though I personally like mine crispier -- nice touch with the fat pork though; the dirty rice was barely edible -- dry and mealy and no discernible flavour.
For dessert, I tried the Ontario Peach & Strawberry Cobbler with Vanilla Ice Cream. It arrived in a ramekin, a small portion perched on an oversized platter elaborately (and needlessly) decorated with at least four separate garnishes -- concentric rings of chocolate syrup, miscellaneous-berry red coulis, powdered sugar AND cocoa powder. It was almost more garnish than cobbler...which was itself more undercooked short-pastry than fruit. If it wasn't for the passably tasty vanilla ice-cream, I would have found the pastry tough going. The fruit, what there was of it, was well prepared, not overstewed and with distinct chunks of fruit in a tangy sauce but there wasn't enough to stand up against the doughy pastry.
The decor seemed to be trying too hard, and the plush island banquette in the centre of the room looked incongruous with the self-consciously rough-hewn barnboard theme. I did like the Sani-Hand station outside the restrooms, though. Total bill including a (small!) glass of iced tea, a little under $30 including tax but before tip.
I might give it another chance, but I wouldn't call it a recommendation.
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I agree that the main problem with the ribs is their LACK OF FLAVOUR!
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