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Italy

Eating out in Rome

My husband and I are headed to Rome for an anniversary getaway: 4 days and 4 nights. Food and walking around the city will be the main focus of the trip! Would love recommendations from you all on restaurants: would like to do a blend of the top restaurants and the more "humble" bistros and smaller places. We are not sure exactly where we will be staying but are pretty adventurous and willing to travel for good food. Many thanks for your views.

130 replies so far

  1. See the post on the board from Brian Lindauer--I want to say, echoing his recent post:
    Go to Matricianella. I went twice my last visit.

    If you don't mind traveling to what many Americans will consider shadier parts of the city--I don't as my wife is basically Roman and makes this easier for us when we travel there--go to Testaccio for very rustic Roman dishes, but also one of the most wonderful places: Checchino dal 1887.

    I love the Jewish Ghetto: Sora Margherita, Da Giggetto, Al Pompiere, etc.

    I love also Roman wine bars, I'm forgetting the quite fancy one in Trastevere just across the Tiber, run by two sisters?

    1. re: George

      Its true Testaccio is the old slaughterhouse quarter but it is hardly shady - its just roman, not touristic, not particularly historic (if you count out the pyramid, cemetary, etc), but definitely worth a visit for food. Im thinking specially of the daily market and surrounding area including Volpetti, fine wine stores, bakeries and many restaurants serving characteristic Roman dishes. Easy to get to via a tram, metro or walking down next to the Aventine from the Colosseum. check out slow food or other guides to find other places to eat there. Go early in the day if you want to check out the market.

      1. re: George

        Thanks, I do have the info from Brian's post noted. By the way, would love recos on wine bars as well: we are big drink as well as eat people! Many thanks.

        1. re: rpd

          One thing I didn't say about Matricianella: You definitely need to RESERVE. They have an endless line of people they have to send away every night it seems.

          1. re: rpd

            Cul de Sac is our favorite wine bar in Rome, a wonderful place to go if you're looking for a light meal as well. It's near Piazza Navona, and tho small and tight, they have seating outside (if you get there early enough.)

            My second preferred enoteca is on via Cavour just up from the Colosseum, which, unfortunately, I haven't visited for several years. (I think it's called Cavour 32, but I might be wrong about the number, which is their address.) They also have excellent salumi and formaggi plates, along with a huge selection of wines.

            1. re: jbw

              It's Cavour 313, I think, and I second it: really great and unusual salumi and cheeses, etc. Don't miss Pizzeria Leonina around the corner, via Leonina 84, pizza by the slice, I grabbed two at lunchtime and only then went to Cavour 313 (for more lunch).

              In my first posted response, I mentioned another wine bar in Trastevere: that is Enoteca Ferrara. It is actually a quite fancy restaurant at night, I've been both during the day and at night.

              'Gusto is also a good place to know, near the Ara Pacis.

              1. re: George

                I really enjoyed Cavour 313. Cannelloni w/chicory & zucchini flowers, lamb marinated in vin santo, assorted salumi....all were great, pics attached.

                   
              2. re: jbw

                I agree about Cul de Sac, Amazing food and wine. we have sent people there and have only heard raves. Rome's oldest wine bar

          2. These are wonderful responses, thanks so much and keep 'em coming!

            1. I second the Ghetto suggestions. Then there is Orso 80 (on via Orso over near the Umberto Bridge) which has become a favorite based on a recommendation here. The thing to get is the house special antipasto, which has about 8 different salads, the most heavenly meatballs, gorgeous mozzarella -- yum! If you add a plate of San Daniele (prosciutto) you have the best meal imaginable. I can never get beyond the antipasto to order a secondo but they don't seem to mind. Sunday lunch there is a blast, full of Roman families -- go early or make a reservation. (Orso 80 looks like nothing on the outside but ignore that. Closed Mondays.)

              1. re: GretchenS

                I looked in on Orso 80 last time -- it looked good. Wish I had gone.

                1. re: George

                  I wish you had too! Everyone I've sent there (well, both families) loved it.

                2. re: GretchenS

                  am in rome for a few days and, based on this post, dined at orso 80 last night. the antipasto plate was less than mediocre. the mozzerella was not fresh, but rather the rubbery kind common in american supermarkets. the white beans were mealy. it only got worse. the pizza was horrendous. cold hard crust covered with canned tomato paste. the pasta was equally terrible--rubbery overcooked noodles swimming in what must have been a mixture of margarine and olive oil. the decor, well, theres the loud humm of flourescent lights and a dining room thats almost empty, aside from some frumpy german tourists (and signed headshots from 80 celebrities). perhaps this restaurant was good in the 80, but now, its by far the worst restaurant ive eaten at in over three weeks in italy. stick with the other suggestions on this post. were you all thinking of the pricey Hosteria dell Orso around the corner?

                  1. re: danjgoldstein

                    Not at all, it's Orso 80 that I raved about. I couldn't be more surprised to hear your description. I will be devastated if this formerly wonderful place has gone downhill.

                    1. re: danjgoldstein

                      I have had amazing meals at Hosteria del Orso - really intelligent cooking,
                      although eating it is sometimes like working a crossword puzzle
                      if you know what I mean. On the other hand, I've never liked Orso
                      80, whose reknowned antipasto table has always struck me as gimmicky and banal -
                      as you imply, a wasted meal.

                      1. re: condiment

                        I do not suggest Osteria del Orso-- it is nouvelle cuisine with the snobbiest waiters.

                      2. re: danjgoldstein

                        Because the Orso 80 is near my favorite hotel, since 2001 I've eaten here, and ate here last March 2006. However pleased I had been in the past with the antipasti misti, I was less than pleased the last time.

                    2. We had a nice meal at

                      La bruschetta e...
                      Via Sardegna 39/41

                      It's a block off the Via Veneto. It's a casual place with both outdoor and indoor seating. The owner was very friendly, the food great and the setting very pleasant. We loved the foccacia. It was very different from the foccacia we get in the states. It was very thin with sauce and spices. It was almost crispy when it was done. Quite delicious. The pastas were good. The veal was nice. I would recommend this place. We didn't have a reservation and just wondered in and were very pleased to have a nice, low key meal. And, by the way, they make their own desserts. We loved the apple tort!!!!!!! Enjoy your trip, we loved Italy.

                      1. La Rosetta near the Pantheon (on v. Rosetta) is fantastic for seafood. We arrived without reservations & they were happy to seat us only after they ascertained that we didn't mind the seafood-only orientation of the place. Expensive to super-expensive.

                        on a much more budget side of things, try Dar Poeta in Trastevere for pizza (dinner only). The hectic Da Baffetto is also great...but we much preferred the equally crowded, but more relaxed vibe at Dar Poeta. (on Vicolo del Bologna (an alley) opposite/near Santa Maria della Scala).

                        Heard great things about the above-mentioned Orso80, but didn't make it there...next time...

                        1. Someone mention Gusto earlier and that was a good joint.

                          I was glad that we made it to Roscioli for our last meal in Italy. Come to find out when I get home that the restaurant comes in high regards from all the foodie magazines (glad they agreed).

                          1. i live in rome, and therefore eat out quite a bit there; all of the above suggestions are strong. i'd also recommend enoteca ferrara in trastevere. it's a romantic restaurant (reservations may be necessary on friday and saturday nights) with an unbelievable wine list (in fact, it is a wine bar) and great food. this is 'creative cuisine' as the italians would call it. www.enotecaferrara.it/ i'd also recommend some neapolitan pizza (which i prefer to the thinner roman pizza) at a wonderful pizza joint in the center on via di ripetta (near the spanish steps) called pizza re. www.pizzare.it/

                            1. re: ildente

                              Since you live in Rome...is there a restaurant that you can recommend for Christmas Eve? We are staying near the Spanish Steps. We have eaten at LaRampa several times and enjoy it! Any help would be much appreciated. Ciao

                            2. If you are drinkers, you shouldnn't miss il goccetto via dei banchi vecchi 14 between campo dei fiori and the river. Also right across the street is Il Pagliaccio, really good almost fusionly restuarant with the most amazingly pastry chef.

                              I've never eaten or drinken well enough at Ferrara to justify their prices, although it is a pretty restuarant and in Trastevere. Also gusto - high prices, slow service, so so food (but is open on SUNDAY which is a big deal)

                              Wholehartedly agree about Matricinella (although recently has fallen a bit), Sora Margherita, Al Pompiere, Orso 80 and La Rosetta. Also, don't know what days you are traveling, but Sunday most of the good restuarants are closed in Rome as others have noted so organize ahead of time accordingly.

                              I would also add Trattoria near Piazza Rondinelli, small new style rest (pantheon area), Armando al Pantheon (basic tratt cooking but you can always count on them); L'archangelo (prettied up trattoria near piazza cavour in prati) and for splurging Il Convivio and L'altra Mastai.
                              and if you are willing to travel out of the center Guida Ballerino (near cinecitta, nuovo roman) Via Marco Valerio Corvo www.giudaballerino.it - open sunday lunch. Service slow, food good and Sforno Pizzeria (popular with Roman foodies at the moment)in the same area Via Statilio Ottato 06-71546118.

                              Have fun.

                              1. re: KMERC

                                Yep, Armando al Pantheon is really good. Ask them for recommendations and you will get a rally classic Italian meal.

                              2. Thanks everyone, I've printed out all your suggestions and will def. be going to many of these places. I recall it being difficult to find open restaurants in Rome on Sundays, true?

                                1. re: rpd

                                  yes unfortunately it is true. It is difficult to find a good restuarant open in rome on sunday.

                                  1. re: KMERC

                                    Or anywhere in Italy for that matter. Romans and other Italians traditionally go out for a large, often roast-type family meal Sunday "after church." Because the restaurants do their bigger meal then, they often close for the rest of the day (and sometimes Monday as well). So have your main meal at noon and then settle for a lighter meal later in the day if find somewhere open (there will be enough) or on Saturday buy some bread, cheese, salad stuff if you are renting an apartment.

                                    1. re: DylS

                                      The sunday afternoon meal is tremendously relaxing - I recommend it - if you still have an appetite in the evening, you will find pizzerias open - thats about right.

                                      ps - the Rome central business district is a bad place to find meals on Sunday - I havent researched but would suggest looking in more residential zones for meals on that day.

                                      Sunday is also a great day to go out of town - to one of the hill towns as Romans do, or to walk the Appian Way - there is at least one comfortable lunch place out there.

                                  2. re: rpd

                                    Orso 80 is open and hopping at Sunday lucnhtime, mostly Italian families. Go early or make a resrvation. Then as Jen says, a light dinner at a pizzeria will be all you want that night. There will likely be other types of small local restaurants open near where you are staying, just not the fancy places. I had a very respectable Sunday dinner at Taverna dei Fori Imperiali near my hotel last time I was there on a Sunday -- not a destination place but I had no complaints either.

                                  3. I agree with all of these recommendations. But also, for some amazing pizza, try Pizzeria da Baffetto. The house specialty -- fried egg and all -- is incredible.

                                    1. re: dag556

                                      Too true about sunday, and must be kind of mediteranean. I'm going to athens for the weekend, and pretty much every restauant that been recommended is closed sunday or open only for dinner. In any case -
                                      Yes, getting out of the center is not a bad idea when looking for sunday lunch - depending on what you are looking for -Guida Ballarin is not a bad idea, you can take the metro Way out of the center - for a simple good fish not high price locals place for sunday I highly recommend Mamma Angelina Viale A. Boito 65 06-68608928. You need a cab, reservations probably required, but don't missed the fried baby octopus (moscardini). Closer to the center - Trattoria Monti near piazza vittoria is open for lunch only on sunday, and Ditrambo near campo di fiori 06-6871626 is good and open. Unfortunately (I guess) you will find more foreigners there than Romans, but that speaks more the the Romans simple food taste than the quality of the food.
                                      OUt of town is a great idea if you have a car - San Cesario is like the temple of old classic roman cooking, and Antonio Colonella is a temple to new roman cooking.

                                    2. guida ballerina is pretentious, overpriced, and in the middle of nowhere. no need to trek that far if you only have 4 days! in any case, gusto is open on sundays, and so are a bunch of other restaurants in the center...don't bother going out too far... call first! enjoy roma!

                                      1. I want to second the recommendation for Dar Poeta. Just got back from Rome and we went twice while we were there! The "alta" style is fantastic, and the two best pizzas were the Dar Poeta (cheese, zucchini, and sausage) and the Bufala (tomato, basil and buffalo mozzarella).

                                        Yum!

                                        1. I think GUSTO is terribly overpriced, bad service, and very mediocre food. It's open on sunday, and you can eat outside, and for me that's the only thing its got going for it. To each his own I guess

                                          1. Last Sunday I had the pleasure to be in Rome, roaming the streets with my love, at chance. He picked La Locanda del Pellegrino (http://www.lalocandadelpellegrino.it/) for dinner, and we had an amazing stay on the bamboo terrace, all by ourselves. The food was cooked and presented with love. We also appreciated that the staff knew better English than expected.

                                            The previous night we had a reservation at L'Archangelo, where the staff fell in love with us, it'd seem. Had several free items and they ignored our tip :) We left it on the table, nevertheless. Both places were great; we live to eat, among other things. Between the two, though, we'd pick the one above because the food was less restaurant-like: somehow more real.

                                            1. re: gorgeoux

                                              YOu mean you prefered La Locanda? I'd love to know, since I've seen it and been curious about it. It's always empty but the menu seemed interesting and I pass by it alot. Plus I thought I saw them open on a sunday, an rarity here in Rome.
                                              Archangelo I know well and like very much. They are also terrifically nice people. However, I can see what you mean about "restuaranty"

                                              1. re: KMERC

                                                Yes, we both prefered Locanda for both food and English :) Can't imagine why it was empty, especially on a Sunday. Anyway, can't wait to go back when we make it to Rome again. Would love to hear your thoughts after you try it. BTW, I've more details about food that evening in my Rome post on my blog: http://gorgeoux.blogspot.com/2006/09/...

                                            2. We have only one dinner and need a suggestion out of all of these.

                                              1. A hearty second for Pizza Baffetto. Be sure to order "Il Baffetto."

                                                1. re: Odelay101

                                                  Also, I suggest Monte Carlo on via Savelli between Campo and Navona.
                                                  an La Foccacia on via della Pace (Navona)

                                                2. A little of the beaten path is Trattoria Monti. The best meal I had in Rome for sure. Run by Mama and her two gorgeous sons. I think they take reservations, but if not, it's worth the wait. Truly amazing!

                                                  1. I went to La Matricianella and Orso 80 as a result of advice on the boards. La Matricianella was fun and delicoius, particularly the artichoke and pasta with mushrooms - as well as the desserts. Orso 80 was disappointing. Although the antipasto had a nice selection, nothing tasted as special as I wanted it to, even the meatballs.

                                                    1. Brand new to Chowhound.

                                                      My qualifications: 55 years old, 7 visits to Rome since 1998, and my next visit 2-12 Jan 2007, staying in Trastevere, and welcoming suggestions for eating there.

                                                      My recommendations:
                                                      I. For fine dining:

                                                      Il Convivio-Troiani : outstanding food, superior location (just north of Piazza Navonna), superior service, good surroundings, and a very wise wine steward. I've been eating here since 1998, it being close to my favorite hotel.

                                                      Agata e Romeo, near S.Maria Maggiore. I ate here 2003, without any regrets.

                                                      II. Not the Himalayian heights of fine dining eating, but good all the same:

                                                      Enoteca Capranica. up the street from the Pantheon.

                                                      Il Simposio-di Costantini. esp. the wine

                                                      Trimani Via Cernaia 37b, esp. the wine

                                                      L'Archeologia Via Appia Antica 139, across from San Sebastiano and down from the masoleum of Caecila. Out almost in the countryside in a lovely setting, with a fireplace in winter.

                                                      Da Pipero via Monte de Cenci 9. Not kosher, but still Jewish-Roman.

                                                      Les Etoiles, 14 Les Etoiles, Hotel Atlantic Star, via dei Bastioni 1. On the top floor. Ask to be seated to see the floodlit dome of S. Pietro.

                                                      III. Middle priced:

                                                      La Campana, reputed to be Rome's oldest. You might complain about the lack of English and the stiff (but not rude) service; you can't complain about the food.

                                                      La Taverna da Giovanni, via Banco di Santo Spirito 58

                                                      Armando al Pantheon, Salita de Crescenzi, near Pantheon

                                                      La Taverna del Ghetto via del Portico d'Ottavia, 8: 100% Kosher Roman Jewish, so no cheese, no pork, and soy milk for your coffee. Kosher wine as well. Articokes anyone?

                                                      Ostaria da Nerone, Via delle Terme di Tito 96. The only place near the Forum Romanum where I've had a good meal, save for Papok (and it was overpriced. Get the house pasta, fetuccine alla Nerone.

                                                      Trattoria Da “Oio” a Casa Mia Via Galvani, 43-45. In Testaccio. The Spaghetti Carbonara is excellent. For tripe, try the Coratella Veneta. And enjoy the unceasing background dialogue of the owner's wife who defines the word "brassy"

                                                      IV. Quasi-budget (at least for a big city)

                                                      Da Francesco Piazza Del Fico at Via della Fossa (near Piazza Navonna), esp. the antipasti table

                                                      Sora Margherita Piazza della Cinque Scole 30. No sign outside. Fine Roman-Jewish. If there in the spring: Articokes.

                                                      Antica Birreria Peroni. Via di San Marcello 19. You'll fight the crowds, and you'll soon know why they're there. Best beer in Rome, and fine sausage.

                                                      L’Archetto. Via dell Archetto 26. More crowds. Only serious offering is spaghetti (no other pastAs) with 105 sauces to choose from.

                                                      Dar Filettaro a Santa Barbara, aka Filetti di Baccalà. Largo dei Library 88. Only one serious dish: the fried cod. open only 17:30-23:00

                                                      Carbonari, Campo di Fiori. Eat their signature dish, spaghetti carbonara (if your cardiologist will allow you) al fresco.

                                                      Dagnino. Galleria Esedra, Via V. E. Orlando 75. hot food cafeteria, fine coffee. 12-22hrs continuous service.

                                                      And my favorite place for dinner ("lunch" to you Yankees): Enoteca Corsi, via dei Gesu 87, lunch only closed Sa Su.

                                                      V. And the best al fresco:

                                                      Locations that come into to question come: 1, Piazza Santa Maria in Trastevere, 2.Piazza Navonna, 3. Campo Fiori, 4. Piazza Farnese, and 5. Piazza della Rotonda. In the first I haven't found a good restaurant. The Second is just too big. The third really isn't for enjoying the sight as for shopping.

                                                      I go to the 5th: Di Rienzo Piazza del Pantheon 8/9. Ask to be seated on the edge to gaze in awe at the world's 3rd greatest building Especially mystical at night, watching them close the world's oldest doors, when the lit building seems a vision. At night also, the street life is particularly fine. The food is not the very best, but good, and the service if fine. It's al fresco even in January, even in the rain.

                                                      in the 4th, there is a fine dining restaurant Camponeschi: Piazza Farnese 50, but al fresco not available in the winter. Otherwise insist on being seated al fresco. Fish here is good.

                                                      VI. Don't forget coffee at:
                                                      Caffe Sant’Eustachio, Piazza di S. Eustachio (try the Grand Caffe, and you must ask them to hold the sugar)

                                                      Camillioni di Sant’Eustachio,Piazza di S. Eustachio 54 (next door to the former and for regular espresso, cheaper and just as good)

                                                      Caffe Farnese, via dei Baulari 106. enjoy the view of the Palazzo Farnese.

                                                      Antico Caffe della Pace, at Piazza S Maria della pace (more of a Parisian sit down place)

                                                      Bar Canova Piazza del Popolo 16/17. also more for sitdown. try the ice cream also

                                                      Caffe Greco: Via del Condotti 86. also more sitdown. Worthy of its fame.

                                                      Vatican Caffe San Pietro also a cafeteria, and the only place that I've found in the Vatican area worth eating in.

                                                      my 2nd favorite: Caffe Ciampini: Piazza S. Lorenzo in Lucina, 29. Not far from my favorite hotel, I go here in the morning for my cappacino

                                                      and The Holy Grail of espresso: Tassa d’Oro, Piazza della Rotonda

                                                      VII. For pastry: the Italians aren't as good at this as the Austrians: La Dolceroma (Via del Portico d'Ottavia 20) is Jewish-Austrian.

                                                      VIII.The Italians Are the best for ice cream, and the best of the best in Italy, outside of Sicily: Giolotti, Via Uffici del Vicario 40

                                                      IX SOMEONE TELL ME ABOUT

                                                      Antico Bottaro, via Passeggiata di Ripetta 15
                                                      Hosteria dell'Orso di Guaitiero Marchesi Mario
                                                      Checchino dal 1887
                                                      Tre Archi da Loreto. Via dei Coronari 233.
                                                      Trattoria Da Gino e Pietro. Via del Governo & Vicolo Savelli
                                                      Da Gino, Vìcolo Rosini 4
                                                      Trattoria da Tonino, Via del Governo Veccio 16/19.
                                                      Osteria del Pegno, Vicolo di Montevecchio, 8
                                                      Ristorante Montevecchio, Piazza Montevecchio, 22a
                                                      Maccheroni, Piazza delle Coppelle, 44
                                                      Al Vicario, Via degli Uffici del Vicario
                                                      Ristorante Trattoria, Via delle Cornachie, 2
                                                      Romilo, Via di Campo Marzio, 13
                                                      Fraterna Domus, Via dell Cancello 6.
                                                      Trattoria, Via dei Banchi Nuovi 8
                                                      Vecchia Locanda vicolo Sinibladi 2
                                                      Antica Taverna. Via Monte Giordano 12.
                                                      Trattoria Filippo La Mantia, Via Pozzo delle Cornacchie 25
                                                      L'Angoletto, Piazza Rondanini 55
                                                      Cul de Sac Piazza Pasquino 73
                                                      La Fontanella, Largo della Fontanella Borghese 86
                                                      Il Pagliaccio. Via Banchi Vecchi 129.
                                                      Papa Giovanni. Via dei Sediari 4.
                                                      Al Pompiere, via Santa Maria dei Calderari 38
                                                      Sergio alla Grotta, Via delle Grotte 27
                                                      Ostaria Ar Galletto. Vicolo del Gallo 1, at Piazza Farnese
                                                      Bucatino. Via Luca della Robbia 84/86.
                                                      Sora Lella, insola Tiber
                                                      Il Matriciano. Via dei Gracchi 55.
                                                      Dal Toscano. Via Germanico 58/60.

                                                      1. re: Sid Cundiff

                                                        "VII. For pastry: the Italians aren't as good at this as the Austrians: La Dolceroma (Via del Portico d'Ottavia 20) is Jewish-Austrian."

                                                        Not in Rome, no. You have to go south, Naples and beyond, for rich, creamy, decadently sweet pastries, marzipan, chocolate, or north to Tuscany for more restrained, less dairy-centred cakes and biscuits.

                                                        1. re: DylS

                                                          La DolceRoma was excellent; I had a mozart cake (like the mozart ball marzipan candy, sponge cake, choc mousse, all covered in a thin layer of marzipan & dusted w/cocoa) and a yogurt cake w/currants--both were excellent.

                                                           
                                                        2. re: Sid Cundiff

                                                          Maccheroni is good and simple food. Great atmosphere, famous faces occasionally (if you like that sort of thing) and you can see through to the kitchens. Really mice staff - let you party and eat all night if you like and order for you if you can't choose. I lived in Rome for a year and this became like a second home.

                                                          1. re: Abi

                                                            Thanks! 2 Jan and 10 Jan I'll be staying in my favorite hotel near by. I'll consider Maccheroi for one of those days.

                                                          2. re: Sid Cundiff

                                                            I can tell you about Bucatino, located in Testaccio, where we went a few nights ago. Very disappointing. Big portions of mediocre food. Had roast pork, wife had veal, both came in same gloppy Franco-American gravy. House wine was equiv. of Gallo Hearty Burgundy. Service bordered on hostile--we discovered when it was too late that there were blackboard specials and some sort of salad bar that our waiter never bothered to inform us about. This was our most negative dining experience of our vacation in Italy.

                                                            However, 2 or 3 blocks away is a nice self-serve budget option. On Via Marmorata is the wonderful (and stratospherically expensive) Vopetti, with a mind-boggling array of cheeses, meats, etc. Just behind it on the side street is a takeout shop with a few tables that has their name in it, so my guess is that they own it. We were feeling a bit fooded out after one big dinner after another, and we wandered in, grabbed two cafeteria trays, and had really great gnocci in a light tomato sauce, and roast chicken with some braised zucchini on the side. It is definitely worth knowing about if you are in the Testaccio neighborhood.

                                                            Charlie

                                                            1. re: albinoni

                                                              Thanks, Charlie! re: Bucatoni: another to cross off m list. The Volpetti in the Via della Scofa, close to my favorite hotel, is well know to me, and I can endorse it's quality. I'm glad it has a store in Testaccio as well.