Hi Tim,

My experience there aligns for the most part with yours.

I don't like sharp heels on knives. For me, it's not so much the damage to the kitchen towels (which does happen though), it's just that I don't feel that safe manipulating them. Bolsters or rounder/thicker heels are not unnecessary safety features IMO.

My old French cooking knives indeed remain my favorites. They're Nogent/cuisine massive style plus one Sabatier. Their blades, CS or SS, are thin and take very easily a mean edge. Of course, they don't retain it as long as modern knives with harder steel but a few (light) strokes on a steel or on the Ikea ceramic honing rod (which I warmly recommend) are usually enough. They very rarely require sharpening on a stone. When they do, I find that their thinner and pointier bolsters don't get in the way as much as those of their German counterparts. And they are much thinner and lighter and have less belly : my 8" SS Nogent weights half as much as my Zwilling 4 star of the same size and I find it much more agile and maneuverable.

For me and for what I'm cooking, my French knives strike a nice balance between performance and ease of maintenance. I don't think I'll be buying any new Japanese knife soon. I'm curious about the Chinese cleavers though and might buy a CCK one of these days.

While I understand the preference of others for modern German or Japanese knives, I think lots of what Julia Child said in this video about knives remain true today : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw0Ij... .

And now I want an onion soup !

Cheers

P.S. : I tried sanding the heel of my gyuto but it remained to aggressive for my taste due to the thinness of the blade.

I prefer the look of Bourgeat pans but they appear to be definitely more expensive than Falk :

https://www.manutan.nl/SearchDisplay?...&

https://www.mora.fr/g/311

https://www.amazon.fr/s?k=bourgeat+cu...

There might be other sellers out there offering better prices though.

Only two other names come to mind for modern, stainless steel lined copper: Matfer Bourgeat and de Buyer.

The Alliance line from Matfer Bourgeat is very similar to the good Mauviel of old, with cast iron handles. The main difference with Falk is the exterior finish : smooth for MB, brushed for Falk.

De Buyer copper is slightly thiner (2 vs. 2.5 mm). One of their line, Prima Matera, is induction compatible, which might be a plus for resale.

I know of two other brands in Europe but rather more artisanal than mainstream : Bottega del Rame in Italy and l'Atelier du Cuivre in France.
There's also Baumalu in France but I wouldn't really recommend it.

In any case, stay away from brass handles unless you intend to use your cookware for display or table service only or mainly in the oven : they may look cool but they for sure will get hot.

Alternatively, you may want to consider vintage tin lined copper. In that case, a good starting point to learn about it would be vintagefrenchcopper.com.

Thank you for reminding us of that risk.

I know migration of heavy metals from an enameled surface or even ceramic into food may indeed occur. I think it depends of the enamel itself more than of its color, especially as the interior of ECI pots is usually either plain white or plain black.

Like zackly, I would expect that Tramontina makes sure that the pots it has manufactured in China conform to the various rules and regulations applicable in the various jurisdictions they are imported into (but maybe not to the more stringent ISO standard...). The whole system is usually based on voluntary declarations though and is therefore easy to abuse, controls being expensive and thus rather rare.

In any case, we should all heed the warning of JustCharlie regarding chipping : https://www.chowhound.com/post/opinio...
I for one had not realized chipping was such a risk with ECI...

Both Lodge and Tramontina ECI are MIC according to their respective websites.
I was told in a LC shop a few years back that the difference between quality ECI and knockoffs was how they withstand the test of time (no discoloration and no or very limited chipping of the enamel notably on the rim) and the fit between the lid and the pot (she demonstrated by switching the lid between to identical cocottes and indeed each lid didn't fit the other pot as well as the one it originally belonged to).
I see no reason why at least some MIC ECI couldn't be of the best quality but I don't have any firsthand experience here as all my ECI are either LC or Staub (and I have a few as at a time I didn't know better and really fancied ECI). All but one are vintage pieces, bought second hand for far less than the price of the Costco Tramontina. And all remain in very good condition despite their age and still look great.

For the food, the main advantage of a long handle is that the pan can easily be lifted off the gas (delicate sauce in a small saucepan...) or tilted (think basting food with foaming butter or braising liquid in a saute pan...).
As for the cook, long handles make it easier to drag a pan from a burner to another on a crowded stove and they tend to stay cooler especially on gas. But as tim irvine pointed out, size and weight matter.
At the end of the day, I guess I would choose the two short handles for saucepans 24 cm and over but stick with the long handles for smaller saucepans and for all saute pans (or at least up to 30 or 32 cm).
I'm not a big fan of helper handles. I find they take too much space in storage as well as on a crowded stove where they tend to get in the way.
One last thing: without a long handle, shouldn't a saucepan be called a stew pot and a saute pan a rondeau?

Hi Kaleo,
I wasn't expecting the Louis Tellier catalogue would please you that much but I'm very glad it does.
You might also enjoy Mallard Ferrière https://mallardferriere.com/societe/ or Lejeune https://www.lejeune.tm.fr/la-maison-l....
I think Louis Tellier sells exclusively to businesses but many others similar companies in France should be happy to ship to private clients in the US or elsewhere.
For those who don't want to bother, some LT products are available in the US through resellers like https://www.webstaurantstore.com/2905...

I have a 30 cm oval blue Doufeu and a 29 cm red round vintage La Mama which are roughly similar in size if not in shape to your new DO and I haven't noticed any difference in performance on my gas stove between them and my other smaller Le Creuset (or Staub). I trust the new DO will look great (by the way, which color is it?) and I'm sure your braises and stews will turn out great.
However, to be fully honest, for a long and more relaxed braise or stew, I'd pick your 32cm heavy copper saute pan without any hesitation and I must confess that my ECI nowadays see action only when I decide to put the pot directly on the table.

Thank you. Very interesting.
I cook mostly in old tinned copper which is very heavy and always pour frontally, from the side opposite of the handle, away from my body, using one or two hands depending on the combined weight of the pan and its contents. This appears to me to be the most convenient and safest method and indeed very often the sole possible one given the strength in my hands and arms. I find lateral pouring to be manageable with small to mid size light pans only, even when the handle is adequately shaped for a lateral tilt.
May I ask why you prefer to pour laterally ? Have you tried to pour from the front with either the Demeyre or the Fissler ?

+ 1 on Baumalu for the saucepan because of the small SS rivets, the false hammering and the absence of tin on the rim.
My very first copper pan was indeed a Baumalu, similarly sized but without the false hammer marks, second hand but never used. It was a decent pan, perfectly usable on the stove despite its moderate thickness. However don't expect the tin lining to be as durable as traditional hand wiped tin.
Before using, make sure the factory varnish has been removed (a good soak in warm soapy water should do the trick if necessary) and enjoy your copper !

Hi Claus,

From Zwilling's own website:

a. the Zwilling Pro line, including the frying pans, has been designed by Matteo Thun & Antonio Rodriguez who are based in Milan, Italy
https://www.zwilling.com/de/zwilling-...

b. the main ZWILLING distribution and production companies are in:

Germany (incl. knife production), Austria, Switzerland, Denmark (incl. distribution Scandinavia), Netherlands, Belgium (incl. cookware production), Spain, Portugal, France (incl. cookware production), Italy (incl. cookware production), Great Britain, Ireland, Russian Federation, Turkey.
USA, Canada, Brazil, Japan (incl. knife production), China (incl. production of knives and cookware,) India (knife production), Taiwan.
https://www.zwilling.com/us/about-us/...

They also have a factory in Spain for the production of knives
https://www.zwilling.com/us/about-us/...

c. Zwilling prides itself of 'an incomparable success story' with the establishment of a joint venture in China in 1995
https://www.zwilling.com/us/about-us/...

I think it's therefore relatively safe to assume that any cookware sold by the Zwilling group is made in China except when specifically marked made in Belgium, France or Italy...which the Zwilling Pro line is not.

Cheers and a very happy new year to you and all chowhounders !