Thanks Chem and Knifesavers!

Understood. I'm probably going to get the F. Dick Poliron Oval one despite the significant price difference, just so that I have a good and gentle rod. I'm new to honing anyway, so I'd prefer one with a better feel.

The HandAmerican brand of steels keeps coming up in forums as a good brand, but I can't find one for sale anywhere to look at! Oh well.

I plan on practicing sharpening and honing on my old cruddy knife, even though it's SS and so will surely feel different. Would anyone recommend angle guides for a beginner? I'm actually a professional violist, so I'd like to think my bow arm is pretty steady and sensitive :P All the same.....

Thanks!

I was originally thinking it would be great to find a versatile steel that would be good for the Sab as well as any other future knives, since I will certainly purchase some Japanese knives down the road. But after some more forum reading about honing, it seems as though honing Japanese knives is not recommended because of the harder and finer edge, and that a finer grit stone is a better and gentler way to touch them up. Am I understanding this correctly?

I'm probably "over-planning" my future knife set-up, and should just focus on my Sab for now :P

Is there a great benefit to the oval shape vs the round?

Thanks!

I'm a little confused about the pricing of the different Dick steels.

I have found the Dickoron 12" oval polished steel (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/fdidi12...) for ~$90-100

then this F. Dick Poliron polished steel for significantly less at $60:(http://www.amazon.com/Dick-Poliron-Sh...)

THEN there's that F. Dick packinghouse polished steel for super cheap on madcowcutlery.com mentioned above. $30.

Why the vast price differences? I must be missing something. I definitely pick up on the differences in quality of handle, but are there differences between the steels?

Also, are there other brands that have high quality steels for less than the Dickoron? It's not that I couldn't squeeze out $100 for a steel if it was necessary for my knife-- I'd just like to know if there are good cheaper alternatives ;)

Thanks so much-- you perfectly answered several questions that I've had all along!

That Moritaka sure is a beauty. I just got myself a drink and watched youtube videos of people breaking down meat with it :P My wish list of knives is getting unruly. It's like planning for a big family: one baby at a time....

Although I'm not getting a honesuki now, I am curious: Did this knife end up replacing your boning knife? Does the style of this knife make it less susceptible to chipping, despite the hard steel?

Thanks!

I see a few different kinds of Dickoron on the CNTG website, and I'm trying to sort out what my options for honing steels are exactly.

I see sapphire cut, fine, super fine, and polish-- do those terms refer to the grit of the steel? I'm guessing too coarse a grit would shave off too much from a Sab, right?

Also, is the shape-- round, oval, or flat-- just a matter of preference?

Whichever steel I choose, I'd like it to be suitable for both Sab and Japanese blades if possible. I've read a few offhand comments in blade forums about the HRC of steels, but I don't see the hardness ever mentioned on the product pages of the various steels.

<<In my opinion, the pre-war **** elephant knives are cool to have (for historical reasons), but they aren't better than the modern **** elephant knives.>>

That's exactly what I wanted to know. I must admit, I really do care a great deal for the history, although obviously not enough to choose a lesser knife. Thanks for your view!

I am also looking at these Sabs: http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/s...

Just took a peek at these Canadian Massifs, too:
http://www.thebestthings.com/knives/s...

<<...especially you seem to worry about the rat tail tang on these older knives>>
Do I have reason to worry about the rat tail tang?

Hi Hiracer--

I just posted about Sabs below, but I wanted to ask you and Tim about how you maintain your K-Sab. What is your regime, and frequency of doing all those things? I have read mixed-opinions about how frequently you should hone a softer steel knives. And how does a leather strop figure into all of this? It is my understanding that the strop is primarily for edge bur and polishing... so you would use it after using a stone.

Perhaps the other members would like to give their two cents, too! :)

Reply #2--

Thank you for the "upper $ limit" recommendation. I like thinner blades, but honestly anything would be thinner and feel better to me than my cheap-and-fat German style I currently use. Therefore, I'm not sure how thin I would like to go. I have chopped potatoes at Williams-Sonoma with a Shun Classic, which I believe is about the same thinness as the Sakai, and I liked it that thinness. Again, I didn't have enough experience to compare that 2mm with anything else, though. I suspect I might need a slightly tougher knife like french, since this will be my primary "workhorse" knife-- is that a reasonable thing to say or am I worrying too much about blade chipping? (I can always pull out my crap knife for chicken bones, I suppose!)

Chem--

Thanks for writing as much as you did after losing your original post!

I do understand the whole Sabatier name issue; I should have been more clear in my reply. I've read up on the history and done quite a bit of internet searching to untangle all the names and brands. I think I'm starting to get a clearer picture now, but I still have a little ways to go.

I had said: "It's my understanding that the only Sabatier knives I should consider are K Sabs and the Four Star Elephant Sabs."

I should have said: "It's my understanding that of all the brands using the Sabatier name, the only brands I should consider are K Sabatier and Sabatier **** Elephant logo (by Thiers-Issard)."

I was previously unclear on whether "nogent" was a separate line, just the handle style, or both. I understand now that while the term does refer to the handle/"rat-tail" tang construction, the **** Elephant Sabatier Nogents are ground from pre-war forgings and are really the kind to buy. (Right?? Boy are my eyes are blood-shot from all this internet spelunking!)

Thank you all for responding!

>>Tim:
I looked further into the nakiri style, and I HAVE to have one-- I'm in knife love. The Tojiro is such a low price, and has such great reviews. Is it because of the white #2 steel? (I'm trying to get a grasp on the different steels.) Too bad the ferrule is plastic, but that makes sense with the price point.

Also, I really like your go-to choices of 10" Sab and nakiri. It's a combo that sounds right up my alley, and is actually a similar set-up to what I've been predicting for myself. Of course, knife love aside, I should really make my first good knife the most versatile, so may have to raincheck my nakiri hunting. Doesn't hurt to keep researching and dreaming, though ;P

>>Hiracer, Tim, everybody:
Good points about the toughness of the Sabs. I am now thinking that perhaps I should go that route as opposed to gyuto. I'd like to pick them apart a bit, though. It's my understanding that the only Sabatier knives I should consider are K Sabs and the Four Star Elephant Sabs. How do these compare to each other? And how do the newer generations of those kinds differ from the older, vintage versions? When I look at the vintage Ks and ****s on Ebay, they're selling for much higher than the newer productions, which makes me wonder about the quality of the modern ones.

Also, I have read on one chowhound discussion that it is possible for nogent style knives to have lower quality of construction on the handle-- a "false tang." Should I be concerned about this with the nogent style Sabs, or is that only for lower quality brands? Perhaps it is not so common as I would fear. Also, is there a particular benefit to that type of handle, such as a different balance point?

>>Chemicalkinetics:
Thank you for the info and recommendations. A significant portion of what I currently know I learned from you in other CH discussions, actually! :)

Duly noted about rock chopping and bunkas; I will eliminate them from my current knife hunt. As for the stones, I actually already have that King 1000 in my Amazon shopping cart, based on your explanation in another post. Let's pretend I will have both a Sab and a Japanese; would this stone work just as well both of them? Would the maintenance of each differ greatly, other than needing to realign the edge of the Sab more frequently?

So far I've had two different members recommend Tojiro knives. Is that simply because they are the best in the price range I mentioned, or because they are exceptional in that price range? I know I shouldn't "thumb my nose" at saving money, but I would certainly be able to stretch the limits I gave if it would allow me to get a superior knife. I am easily tempted... In any case, thank you all for matching my budget so carefully!

Many thanks to all for all for all of this very helpful input!! I apologize for my delay in responding. This is great-- I'm learning a lot from you all.

Although many of my new questions stem from specific responses, I will try to type them separately so that they stand out in my long post!

This item is no longer available for sale. Based on what I've learned in this forum, however, I would've given it a pass since I am only looking for tin lined pieces.

Alexrander-- thank you for your input and investigating! I am just beginning my copper collection, and so for practical reasons (as well as financial!) I am focusing my search on the pieces of which I am most in need. So, for now I'm mainly hunting for a ~10" fry pan/skillet, as well as a 4-5" and ~7" saucepan. An oval gratin sized about 10" is also on the top of my list, but I am considering the former items a higher priority than the latter.

>>>>Your mention of the handles bring to mind a question: Of tin-lined pieces, are brass or cast-iron handles more desirable, or equally fine?<<<<

>>>>Good to know about the electro-plating of the tin! Is there any difference in quality between the two different methods of tin application? Either in the tin itself or the probable quality of pieces made with one method or the other?<<<<

JimmyH-- Thank you!

Brooktroutchaser-- Weight unknown, but thank you for your input!

Kaleokahu-- Thank you for all the information. I'm a bit curious about something you said: "Thinness in and of itself is no disqualification, because no one is likely to cook in it anywhere other than in an oven." Do you mean to say that *one* is likely to cook in it anywhere other than the oven?

>>>>In any case, it is my understanding that there is indeed a significant difference between the quality/performance of a thinner copper/tin piece and thicker one. It seems common sensical to me; however, are thinner pieces not at all suitable for oven use? I read on the Mauviel website that tin begins to blister at approximately 460F, and I've read elsewhere that you can use copper/tin in an oven up to 450F.

Also, of the range of thicknesses available on tin-lined pieces, is there a specific thickness that might be said to the benchmark of "high quality," with anything thinner being less-desirable? Or can the thickness vary depending on the size of the piece, meaning the proportion of thickness to width and height is the real indicator of quality? For example, I've read that 2mm and higher is best. However, I recently saw a round, 7" vintage Dehillerin gratin that measured 1.5mm thick. Is this piece, therefore, less desirable? Maybe I'm overcomplicating this, but I would certainly like to know what thicknesses/"thinnesses" to avoid as someone who only wants a top notch, reliable and versatile item! <<<<

I am very grateful for all of these comments. Thanks again!