I generally do shoulders as it's convenient for a few days for 2 people and significantly cheaper during the holidays when they're on sale. Not something I do often any more now the kids are out of the nest and my parents gone. That usually merited purchasing a leg years past. I can't justify that now.

My method is on a small rack and get the oven very hot around 450 and cook open on a sheet pan around a half hour and follow by reducing temp to around 325 and foil tenting until nearing desired temp to let the skin brown. 185 is the pull temp and it typically rises over 190 while holding. I baste at half hour intervals with the discarded marinade that has been boiled first.

Fat cap stays up. The texture is more flaky/shredable at 185 and I do it without a rack. I should mention that I do let the meat rest at room temp after after pulling it from the fridge and bag and pat it with paper towel to remove pooled moisture and drain what's left on the rack.

The process is what I learned and I don't try to tamper much with tradition. Yes, in years past we did "bloom" cumin seed, but powdered is more convenient and pretty much as become the de facto substitute. The knife slits are sort of mandatory to get a finger in with the paste...again, the ritual I learned.

But now want to see if I can do better then average. I've never tried injecting, but just recently did buy a stainless one that I've haven't tried yet. Withholding the citrus is one of my first tweaks and it really didn't seem to affect the texture in my half butt test piece. I also didn't mention that when I used to do it the original way with everything combined, the marinade in the bag also contained a large onion finely sliced on a mandolin that I add to the bag and paste.

That makes the basting sauce and later remaining for a side sauce rather then make a classic mojo with onions,sour orange,pepper,and pressed garlic thrown in hot oil. It can make a mess, but worth it. You can easily go through a loaf of Cuban bread with either as a dip.

I guess I should have reserved the falling off the bone rather then shred texture in the literal sense. That's the way my daughter does it in a deep pan. 400 for the first half hour and foil covered, at 180 or so and leaves it overnight and it's ready on return from work. Texture is more like pulled pork done in a crock pot in a lot of fluid. To each his own. Probably nobody does Lechon the same way. I simply follow the tradition that was handed to me. I'm just trying to improve it a bit more.

EMac

I'm at least hoping that any regular or passer by would take the time to leave a few lines about what they remembered about the sauce, the food preparation. Anything, as a recollection.

Perhaps something that struck you different about the sauce, something about the flavor. For example, did you taste allspice, cinnamon, changes over the years?

The Pit as we remembered for years is gone. It's amazing how someplace that was celebrated as the best barbeque in Dade could now be so easily forgetten as it once was.

Luby's is some way similar to the what was called Tartar Sauce down here in South Fl and the Keys back when I was a kid in the 50's and early 60's. It wasn't this sweet pickles/relish, sugar, and mayo stuff that suddenly became Tartar Sauce during the 70's when the chain restaurants started moving down here. If you went to a restaurant or cafeteria back then, what was served as Tartar Sauce was based on very finely shredded and chopped cabbage and a little green pepper and onion almost to the point of an over processed fine pulp mixed with mayo, finely chopped dill pickle or dill pickle relish. That was pretty much the standard base no matter where you went. Some places added combinations of finely chopped parsely, lemon or key lime juice or zest, and/or capers. The mayo was often made fresh in the restaurant then. I can post a basic recipe if you're interested.

No I haven't despite all the wonderful things that I've heard about their spices and blends. My only experience with chipotle powder has been with Mccormick and Trade East (foodservice) with near identical(hot) results. I only mentioned the particulate effect as being indicative of using powdered spices and differentiating from commercial products that have a uniform pink appearance as if a sauce or extract. It bears no impact on the appearance. In fact, I add a small amount of coarse ground pepper and dried parsely to our dressings not for flavor, but to give a visible herb effect. I use a buttermilk/mayo base with a ranch powder that makes for bland appearance, so a red particulate hardly would matter. It was just mentioned as a possible clue.

I've got a can of san marcos and goya in adobo hopefully arriving in a day or two to see if they're any different. I haven't ordered any dried peppers yet. I'll be checking with my rep on the the availablility of the Minor's

Thanks for the suggestion.

I may have received a clue via e-mail on how they're getting the flavor without the heat. Apparently foodservice users have access to a product that's sold among the soup base products made by Nestle foods. It's Minor's Chipotle Flavor Concentrate. I was told that it's also used in frozen drinks to impart the chipotle flavor, so it must not be hot. I'm familliar with their soup base products that I use under private label, but don't recall seeing the chipotle flavoring offered. I've found it on the net and it's available for about $11 retail. All their soup base and flavoring products are refrigerated, so I don't know if this is too.

Thanks all but in the last paragraph, I mentioned that I have tried this with the smokey paprika (pimenton). In the brand that I use, the adobo has relatively little heat compared to the whole pepper with seeds. I do rinse the can and the scrapings with some white vinegar in a small strainer to get the residual adobo off and provide some extra liquid for pureeing into a paste.

My Chipotle Ranch sauce for wraps/dips and salad dressing differ only by sour cream or buttermilk for viscosity and mayo. I use a private label institutional powder mix similar to Hidden Valley's and do add cumin,sugar, and lime juice along with the chipotle puree to make the sauce. To the basic ranch dressing from the mix, I augument with extra, coarse black pepper, garlic powder, and some dried parsely. Adding the smoked paprika in moderate amounts only raises the pink color with perceptably little change to the taste.

I will look into dried peppers and remove the seeds and either reconstitute or grind into a powder. That's not something that's going to be found around here and I'll have to order by mail. Thanks for the idea Matt.

I'm not going to take issue with the rinsing of brine and the addtional seasoning with more salt. That's almost common practice where the brine isn't rinsed away for a saltier (percieved flavorful) taste. There's a double standard, especially in the news media that touts the PC horrors of high fat and sodium in fast food and retail processed foods for headline shock value, yet the entertainment and fine dining segements praise the culinary creations of the trendiest bistro's who's celebrity chef's are serving up cardiovascular and diabetic nightmares by comparison.

The ones that irk me are the behind-the-scenes kitchen interviews with the chefs. Commonly seen are warped commercial aluminum, teflon coated, frying pans tended on high pressure burners by the staff and then the contents plated revealing a teflon pan with a totally bare aluminum center. There's no attempt to use any plastic or wood utensil, just commercial steel or stainless tools on the surface. Every commercial Lincoln or Volrath frying pan I own warns against high heat and using metallic utensils on the surface. Where's that toxic teflon going? Ever watch how a single ladle or ungloved hand makes it way through several 1/9th pans containing prepped ingredients,stock,and sauces by multiple line chefs?

Agreed that you can do great ribs this way. I've smoked batches in my electric smoker (Cookshack clone) and finished them over coals. Those are wonderful,especially if you can get some meaty racks. Rib roasts,even on sale are not a very good way to do this if you don't have the expertiese to trim and the idea of leaving excess meat on the ribs is an abstract to many grocery store butchers and the results are often disappointing.Considering the expense,it's not worth it to pay the money for a rib roast. Furthermore, it's rare that you're going to see ribs larger then 4"-5" on most cryovac roasts destined for retail.

The question remains how the restaurants used to do this with a similar result in a regular kitchen.

Thanks for the follow up B_O. I guess based on what you reported and ACgold's find that they slow roast and "flame kiss", it sounds like they are slow baking around 275-300 enough to render the fat and finshing them on a flame/char broiler. That's not the way they used to do them years ago. I don't ever remember any charring on theirs down here. The sauce was a rather unremarkable brown institutional KC type sauce back then. Sounds like they have ugraded the ribs. How meaty were the rib tops? It's virtually impossible to buy beef ribs from a meat packing house anymore that haven't been trimmed bald right to the bone to maximize the yield on boneless rib eye steaks or roasts. If they are trimming their own,they must be moving a LOT of prime rib. I think I remember their marketing schtick in the 80's that they moved millions of pounds of prime rib. Locations down here used to be packed. Sure miss them and Beefsteak Charlie's.

I've checked out some of these links and did some searches. Frankly, I'[m unimpressed with what I'm seeing as representative of what would have been served up to the late 70's. From what I see, most all of these places are emulating a current Subway type sandwich model with very little meat. When places brag about using only Boar's Head or Dietz & Watson meats, that's pretty poor if you've ever been exposed to old world meat packing house cold cuts and quality cheeses. From the pictures I've seen, the amount of meat & cheese is quite sparse with some rather unortodox toppings by traditional standards. I'm sure there are plenty of folks that would be willing to pay good money for the real deal. If there's plenty of people that are willing to pay $14 for a corned beef or pastrami sandwich prepared and stacked the old way or "goumet" wood fired pizza's in the $30 range, I'm sure there's a market for subs done that old way too.

I think you meant a 10" Chef's that would be practical. A similar sized bread knife is also a basic necessity if I had to limit a set on a budget that can do most anything. An inexpensive sharpening steel from some other brand rather then the original is a must too. I'm surprised how few people will ever touch one included in a set for fear of ruining their knives when the exact opposite is true. Like a fine musical instrument, it's much easier to learn good knife skills with a good quality knife then with cheap or gimmick sets like those sold on TV .

My day to day set on the block is mostly all Forshner and nearly 40 years old. Some of my Forshner butchering knives (set of 3 in a canvas roll that my dad gave me) are further marked with Abrecombie & Fitch. The Fillet knife in that set he gave me from a capasized vessel he worked on led me to aquire a set of kitchen knives piecemeal over the years. The most recent addition being a Santuko. Wonderful knives that I've had professionally sharpened and since about 6 years ago use a Chef's Choice sharpener. My 2 steel clearvers and a chef's knife I inherited from my grandparents as Russel b4 Dexter was added to the brand. Wonderful cleavers that I use primarly for stock. My pricipal vegetable knife has been a Kyocera Namiki ceramic for over 5 years that stays sharp and their warranty is solid, having to use it once. I also have a few pieces by Lamson (Chinese Cleaver branded by Forschner) and a Santuko by MAC that I bought with great fanfare from Cook's Illustrated. OK knife, but Forscher's turned out to be much more practical. I also have some Chinese made steel numbered knives below the cleaver that I rarely use. One of my daughter's that's trained as a chef even though she's a social worker favors nothing but F-Dick carbon steel knives for her basic cutlery. She too uses a similar Chef's Choice sharpener rather then outsource to a knife sharpening service. My experience has been pretty poor as most of the places sharpen very aggressively and mar the knives and remove steel excessively. I can get a great and lasting edge with the electric sharpener. I know many that have great results with Mundial as well. If you're willing to forgo forged, full tang snobware and go with knives sold to the commercial/insitutional market, you can get some fantastic stamped knives without the the ridiculous price tag that chef's swear by.

It's hard to imagine any other chain surviving down here unless they have a special niche. High quality might be one that few have explored. There's several high end gourmet AG indies doing very well despite Publix and WD's dominance. Whole Foods seems to be doing well too. No outside general grocery chain has been able to survive since Food Fair/Pantry Pride during the 80's. Every attempt by any of the majors has failed as most recently Albertsons. Even Hyde Park that is a nationwide distributor couldn't pull it off during the 90's. TJ's might have a chance down here. The parent company is testing the market with a few Aldi's in SF that appear to be placed in solid Publix/WD non-economically depressed areas taking them head on hopefully with a much lower price point niche for essentials. Maybe this is part of a test to see if TJ's can can find a niche.