Tipping on wine in restaurants?

Question

Lets say I purchase a bottle of wine in a restaurant worth $100 retail, most restaurants would charge $200 to $400 for the same bottle. Lets say $250 for arguments sake ($270 including tax). What would the fine dining hounds tip on a $250 bottle of wine? $50 would be the customary 20% on the pre-tax bottle alone . Now, if the sommelier spent some time with me (as he should for a $250 bottle) and decanted the bottle, brought in wine specific glasses, etc., then just perhaps that's appropriate. But if a waiter just opens and pours, do you tip the full 20% on a bottle of wine that's likely already marked up 100% - 300% by the restaurant? I personally don't feel 20% is appropriate (I tend to tip only ~10% on heavily marked up wine), but am interested in what other experienced diners do.

Answer

I wouldn't hinge my tip amount for wine on the price. What's the difference to the somm if its a $75 bottle or a $750? The work involved is the same for him/ her. Decide what you'd like to tip based on service only and not on the price of the wine.

Answer

Here's my take:
Is it a super-special splurge bottle you've saved up for that you'd never be able to afford under normal circumstances? Tip what you can, then, and be super nice and cool to the somm and waiter.
Is it some screamingly expensive bottle that you buy every night because you can afford to drink that way? Then tip on the damn total, you can afford it, and it's probably good for your karma.

Answer

I tip on the total, but I don't buy expensive bottles at restaurants. 

I understand a premium on inexpensive bottles - it's another way of the restaurant recovering costs - and it's tolerable for being able to enjoy wine with my meal. Where that premium continues to be applied in the same percentage (usually exorbitant) without regard to the cost of the bottle, things become a little absurd. The finer the wine, the less it is merely an accompaniment to the meal; it is an experience in itself and a celebration of the wine. When that is the case, it is simply stupid to pay an additional $100-1000 for a bottle; the fact that I am drinking it at a restaurant rather than at home doesn't remotely justify the premium, and I would much rather have a better wine (or multiple bottles) at home than at a restaurant. Knowing what extortion it is would actually detract from the experience at a restaurant.

Answer

Tip on the total. Servers pay taxes as a percentage of their sales at a lot of places now.

If you can afford to go out and spend money on food and drink you can afford to take care of your server.

Answer

One more reason to bring a great bottle to the restaurant and pay whatever the corkage. No reason that I should tip more for a $30 btl vs a $130 btl.

Answer

Yes, yes, yes, tip normally, if you have $250 to spend on one bottle of wine, you have the money to tip properly.

Answer

Here's the relevent result from Zagat's recent tipping survey, if it helps: 

http://blog.zagat.com/2012/12/tipping-survey-results-how-much-do-you.html

When Ordering Expensive Wine, How Do You Feel About Tipping on the Full Value?
Appropriate: 29%
Inappropriate: 28%
Depends if a sommelier assists: 43%

Answer

Normally, I do the 20% +/-, so long as the service is good.

I have tipped a sommelier separately, when much more work was done, say multiple wines for multiple courses, with special handling of some. That has ranged from US $10 to $50, on top of the 20% for the staff. It does not often happen, but for special situations, I just slip them the bill, and say thank you.

Hunt

Answer

So let's turn this around for one moment . . . >>> But if a waiter just opens and pours, do you tip the full 20% on a bottle of wine that's likely already marked up 100% - 300% by the restaurant? <<< Just how much of that "already marked up" price tag do you think the waiter gets? Why are you punishing the waiter for the policy of the restaurant's owners? I'm just askin'

Answer

this is beginning to remind me of the Great "Priming the Glasses" debate a couple years back.

Answer

I recall a Wine Spectator article from the 2000s saying that a $25-$30 flat tip per bottle opened regardless of price was appropriate.

Even factoring in a bump for inflation, is there consensus amongst the commenters that such a practice is wholly inappropriate?

Answer

I buy a bottle off the list about 50% of the time, and about 50% of the time I dine out I take something from my cellar. When I buy off the list, I tip the same percentage as I do for food until the bottle gets into the $250 range, then I tend to adjust the tip downward a little on the wine. When I bring my own wine I leave an extra tip for the server unless the wine service was just awful. If the somm. spent time with me and did a good job, there us probably a separate tip for him/her. As to the comments on mark up, I try not to go to restaurants where the mark up is outrageous. In most restaurants the mark up on cheaper wines is generally higher than that on more expensive wines. But as others have noted, none of the markup goes to the server.

Bottom line, if you can afford the wine, you should be able to afford the tip on it. I would also note that servers are taxed on tips as an assumed percentage of the total of the check, and they have to split the tips with other staff (kitchen staff, bus staff, etc.) 

Last point, if you drink $250 and up bottles of wine, you have enough money that you don't have to be cheap. Being a chowhound is one thing, being cheap is another. Assume that you bill, your total bill, is going to have to include a tip, and dine accordingly.

Answer

Can I just say that I wish I lived in place that allowed you to bring your own bottle!!! Here in Mass you can only do it at restaurants w/o a liquors license/dry towns. 

Dining out I often do not drink the wines I would prefer because the cost is inhibitive. I have no problem buying a 50 dollar bottle of wine for an everyday dinner. However when dining out that $50 bottle becomes $75/$80 and then with tip you are talking about $90+. Crazy.

And since I never spend an outrageous amount of wine I tip on the total, pre tax. 20% is the average. I tip more as warranted. I don't tip too much less w/o talking to the manager/owner.

Answer

I think it's dubious to decide certain items on the menu aren't worth tipping what is customary. All servers would agree, "don't want to tip, stay home and drink."

Before everyone goes off, try over tipping one day, it feels so good! I always leave $1 to $5 extra. If 20% is $8 leave $10. If 20% is $20 leave $25. A tiny amount of money can make a server's day. Being generous in life in all aspects comes back ten fold!

Answer

Happened to come across this thread and thought that it was quite interesting but a bit unfocused. There are quite a few different topics that are brought up but don't really have a strong correlation between them. I currently work in the restaurant industry as a restaurant/bar manager but I still also do serve and bartend a few nights a week so I see both the operation side of the restaurant (ordering, inventory, revenue, loss, etc) as well as the service side interacting with the guest. The topic seems to have gotten a bit heated between obviously individuals in the industry and consumers and I just want to try and shed some light. The following is based on the restaurants that I work in/have worked in and is very similar to a lot of restaurants in the area (casual to fine-dining). 

I think a big thing to think about when considering the profitability of a restaurant is that based on national statistics 60% of restaurants fail within the first three years of opening. Profit margins have to be maintained in order to ensure the success of a restaurant so depending on what kind of experience you are looking for depends on the mark-up. What are you willing to pay for your experience? 

Obviously we are all completely aware that food and beverage prices are inflated for the consumer, this is true in any industry. Hello capitalism! As far as restaurants are concerned, typically restaurants aim for a food cost of 30% (For a dish that costs $30 it should only take $10 to make). I feel like I shouldn't have to say this but sometimes we forget that the $20 discrepancy is NOT straight profit. This $20 is paying wages to the staff of the restaurant (managers, cooks, dishwashers, hosts, bussers, servers, etc), it's paying for the operational expenses (food and liquor licenses, rent, utilities, repairs, equipment, etc.), and what is left is what I consider a true profit. Keep in mind this is also true for liquor, beer, and wine.

Liquor cost varies between restaurants but typically it stays between 18-25%. Liquor however varies a lot more than food (which is why I don't think the food cost holds any relevance in this thread) due to the different levels of quality and value of the products. Spirits, beer, and wine also differ quite a bit between the three so let's just stick with wine for the sake of the original question. It all starts with ordering, whatever the price the restaurant buys dictates what it's going to cost for the consumer. If a specific wine is served by the glass, you can probably count on the mark-up being about 400%. Whatever you are paying for the glass is probably what the restaurant paid for the whole bottle. This is definitely not the case with more expensive wines. There is still a mark up but in most restaurants they want product continuously moving out and not just sitting on the shelves collecting dust (no one makes money if just sits there) so they price it accordingly to price points of their menu and demographic of the restaurant patrons. 

Alright I hope that I addressed the operational aspect of cost appropriately to what was previously discussed. Moving onto the main topic of tipping...Rhonely is completely correct that there really isn't much difference in the service of one bottle between the next (not considering decanting, sommelier, etc) however I think your logic is not focused appropriately. The issue of tipping should be focused only on the server. Your tip SHOULD NOT be dictated by the mark-up from the restaurant, if you're concerned about the mark-up of the wine then don't purchase it. I don't think a lot of people understand how important tipping is in restaurants and I hope that I can clarify and enlighten some in the following:

First and foremost a server's wage is not a "living wage" (minimum income needed to meet basic needs i.e. housing, clothing, food, etc). In the US, server pay rates in most states range between $2-$4 per hour. The reason why is because tips are considered part of their income and accounted for. In order to ensure that the proper taxes are being paid employers are required to report to the IRS the amount of tips a server makes which is determined from their gross sales (including tax) and does appear on their W-9. Typically servers will not receive a paycheck because the hourly wage does not cover the appropriate amount of taxes taken out that is appropriate to their income (this leads to most servers owing money when tax season comes around...double-edged sword). 

Not done yet...next is tip outs. Depending on the restaurant there is typically support staff; bartenders to make drinks, bussers to clean/re-set tables, food-runners, etc. All of these individuals are "tipped-out" at the end of the night by the servers for their role during the shift. Most restaurants have a set expectation of what is to be given to each position and base it again off of the total sales of the server. In my current restaurant the server tips out 3% of total sales to busser, 2% of total sales to food-runner, and 1% of total sales to bartender for a total of 6% being tipped out at the end of the night. If a server made 20% tips that actually only translates into 14% after tipping out the support staff. So if a server has $1000 in sales lets say they made $200 (20% tips) thats $30 to busser, $20 to food-runner, and $10 to bartender totaling $60 which means that the server is only walking with $140 at the end of the night. So even when you go to a restaurant and your server provided excellent service to you and you rewarded them with a 20% tip keep in mind that they do not get to keep that all for themselves. I'm not saying that you should be tipping more than 20% to account for this but rather to be conscious that anything less than 20% hurts a lot more than it may seem.

And the finale!!!! (I promise I'm almost done). Back to Rhonely's original question about tipping appropriately on wine I believe that it is absolutely necessary to tip based on the price of the bottle of wine. You are tipping on the full dining experience and I do not think that it is appropriate to compartmentalize different aspects of your meal and tip accordingly. Just like the kitchen works hard to put a great meal in front of you servers are required to put just as much effort in their knowledge and understanding of the wine on the menu. Most restaurants require their servers to learn the wines and test them to ensure that they provide you with the correct information. If you are dining in a restaurant with 400+ bottles of wine I can guarantee that those servers are constantly being put to the test to ensure they are providing the correct information to guests on every single wine on the list. If a server is going to expect the same tip from a $400 bottle of wine as he would a $40 bottle then why put in the effort to learn and provide that information to the guest? I don't condone the quality of service to differ based on a thought that they may not receive a high tip but if a server continuously strives to wow the guest and help guests try new wines but doesn't get anything in return where is the motivation to continue? Why should they care which wine you want? Why not just leave the cork screw on the table for you as well?

Personally I always tip at least 20% including wine and liquor because when I look at the menu I'm not worried about the tip at the end of the meal. I'm focusing on enjoying a lovely meal with friends and/or family with some great wine and great conversation and as long as the server doesn't completely make a mess of that then I have no problem with tipping them 20% because that is the expectation I have when I choose to go out to eat.

Answer

I should have known this was an old and contentious subject. None the less, there are some more interesting perspectives on this older Chow thread:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/331264

Answer

Im a waitress in central NJ and a 20% tip on the entire bill including bottled wine is customary. I am expected to tip out my bartender on my liquor sales which includes bottled wine 7%. Therefore a $100 bottle which I am tipped out 20% on I will only actually receieve $13 before taxes are taken out. Most restaurants make waitresses claim most if not all of our tips and only pay the standard $2.00 an hour which goes towards taxes always. The terrible thing is that is someone were to tip low or 7% in their bill or bottled wine I would receive no tip at all or would actually pay for you to dine and drink at my table that night. Owners dont always care to change these policies so we get paid and only care about themselves.

Answer

I just tried to delete this, looks like I could only edit!

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