I have just finished a 6-month work/study stay in Paris and here is the culinary wrap-up. I had set out to discover everything I could, within the time and budget constraints I had, about the Paris culinary scene. This meant going to small, cheap husband-wife cafes to more extravagant Michelin-starred establishments. I warn you that this is an extremely long and detailed post. Almost all my notes were written immediately after my experience at the restaurant. I have only included the places that I felt were most notable (for either good or bad reasons). I hope people traveling to Paris will find this useful
THE BEST PLACES:
Les Magnolias (48 avenue de Bry, Nougent aux Poureaux technically just outside of Paris)
My one dinner here placed Les Magnolias at the very top of our Paris restaurant list for overall quality for the price. This is a Michelin one-star establishment just outside the eastern border of Paris. It requires an RER trip to get there and on the evening of our reservations this trip took 2 hours because of a "mouvement social". I think normally it would be a 45 min trip. In any case, we arrived at a relatively modern, classy looking restaurant with a somewhat older, well-dressed clientele. The set menu was 42 Euros for 3 courses, but there were a number of daily specials, all of which sounded delicious, but all of which also had supplemental costs. We fell for it - and we had no regrets. The meal started with 2 amuse bouches. The first was a spoonful of very delicately cooked, diced fresh vegetables with a vinaigrette, but then, upon placement in your mouth, it literally exploded! I'm not sure what he used, but as a kid growing up in Canada we all had these "rocket candies" that would pop in your mouth and this was very similar. Clearly unusual and off-the-wall, but it worked really well. The second amuse bouche was a shot glass filled with 3 separate, layered preparations of tomato: a gelee at the bottom, then a puree, then a consomme (I think - my French was not good enough to follow the details of the explanation). We were instructed to eat all three layers together for the full effect - it was brilliant. I knew that we were dealing with a talented chef who was really trying for something special and I couldn't wait for the rest of the meal. My first course was a roasted foie gras - an enormous portion (at least a half lobe) of perfectly cooked foie gras with a not-too-sweet Muscat sauce. My wife had a dish we translated as "celery risotto with smoked salmon". We were half right - it was, in fact, a "risotto" made entirely of finely diced celery (no rice) in a wonderful creamy, spiced yogurty-sauce all in a bowl on top of which was perched 4 pockets of stuffed, smoked salmon, suspended on 2 thin pastry "rods". A wonderful visual and gustatory experience. Following this, we were presented with 2 other "amuse bouches" - a passionfruit sorbet/consomme and a shallot confit in some sort of sauce. The latter did not work so well, but you couldn't help but applaud the effort. The main course for me was roasted pigeon (perfectly cooked) with a fricasse of cepes, serving on a granite (?) slab. My wife ordered the entrecote "geant" - we thought this was some other playful use of words. Actually, this time the chef was being literal - the entrecote (cooked in goose fat) was enormous - I would guess at least 20 oz (and this was boneless!). Needless to say we split the steak. I haven't been a huge fan of steak in France, but this was incredible. As usual (for France) there were grisly, inedible portions, but the rest was really "beefy" beef and the goose fat added another element of flavour. Another accompaniment was presented as yet another "amuse" - a small copper pot filled with the best potato puree I have ever tasted, or could ever even imagine! I never got to taste Joel Robuchon's famous potato dish, but this had to have been pretty darn close! Dessert for me was a superb selection from a very well-stocked cheese cart and my wife had a berry sorbet of some sort. This was a little disappointing considering the heights reached by the rest of the meal, but nothing really to complain about. Now a few (very small) problems. The kir royale we ordered at the beginning was too sweet and they didn't seem to have any wines by the glass. I should have asked about the latter, but I found a nice half bottle of Chateau Montus that suited us just fine, so I didn't push the issue. On the whole, the chef, Jean Chauvel, is seriously talented, seriously creative and the restaurant works really, really well. I read someone else on this board call Jean Chauvel a "young Pierre Gagnaire" and I think I know what they meant. This (along with Willi's) is my only "must do" restaurant when I return to Paris next.
Lucas-Carton (Place de la Madeleine)
I was going to leave Paris without having returned to a Michelin 3-star restaurant. I felt that I had had great, pleasurable meals at other places and was satisfied. My dear wife, however, convinced me on the telephone from Canada that I would live with regret if I did not visit one of the great culinary temples. She was right (and for that, I will forever thank her!). So it was in my last few days in Paris that I had to decide on (and then find a reservation at) one of these places for lunch (dinner is well beyond my budget). I narrowed it down to Pierre Gagnaire and Lucas Carton. The fomer had no available places, but the latter did - decision made. I had been to Lucas Carton 3 years ago and loved every second of the experience and I was encouraged by recent positive, enthusiastic reviews about the place. I was seated at a large table (meant for 2 people to sit side-by-side) in the main room to the left of the entrance. The meal began with 2 amuse bouche. The first was beautiful flakes of crab with avocado in a very complex and boldly flavoured Thai-inspired vinegraitte. A great palate starter. The second amuse was an awesome a risotto of coquillage. This was served in a small dish with an intensely-flavoured froth hiding the underlying contents of shellfish and risotto. The entree was another spectacular dish called "capuccino d'asperges vertes au lait d'amande" - a wonderful study in asparagus. There was steamed asparagus and asparagus puree topped with a fine julienne of asparagus. This was surrounding by an "almond milk" - one the most pleasing flavours I have ever had. It took every effort not to lick the plate, but I did a pretty good job with my utensils. Then the main course and this was the highlight for me: veal rib braised 72 hours with 3-preparations of carrots. I'll begin with the carrots: baby carrots caramelized, coins of carrots probably steamed with butter sauce, and long thin strips of carrots (?maybe butter braised) with pink peppercorn. They were all great, but the caramelized version was my favourite. But it was the veal rib (tendron de veau) that stole the show: this was cooked absolutely perfectly. It was moist and so flavourful with a beautiful rim of fat (which I love!).It was topped with what I think was braised, sweet shallots. I am not a huge fan of veal and I only ordered this because I was curious about the 72 hours braising process. In fact, this ranks as one of the two best meat dishes I have ever had in my life (Peter Luger porterhouse is the other). I was very unadventurous for dessert and chose the creme brulee, mostly because I wanted to see what such a place would do to this simple dish. It was excellent, of course, and much lighter than ones I'd had previously. As for wines, I was just about in heaven looking at the list. The a la carte menu lists individual glasses of wine to accompany certain dishes, but you can order just the wine to accompany the prix fixe menu. There were some very nice wines listed, including a 1981 Chateau Palmer for 65Euros a glass. Instead, I chose a 1999 Comtes-Lafon Meursault - a reasonable bargain for only 25 Euros/glass. I've seen this same bottle retail in 120 Euro/btl range, so I think their price is more than fair. It was a superb Meursault and the best young white Burgundy I've had. Bold flavours with an incredibel kick on the end-palate that continues seamlessly into a long, long finish. It is only a shame that I won't be able to try this again in 10 years (or maybe I will!). Overall, this was a tremendous dining experience. The staff were very nice and friendly and were happy to revert the conversation to English once the limits of my French were reached. In 2000, I said this was the best restaurant I had been to and the same holds true in 2003. It is hard to imagine a good-value lunch that cost, in the end with an extra tip, close 120 Euros, but this was it. Perhaps it is naïve of me to say this, but after my 2 experiences here, I have little desire to try any of the other Parisian 3-stars Lucas-Carton just feels so right.
Willis Wine Bar (13 rue des Petits Champs)
This was my single most favourite place in Paris and became, quite literally, my second home. I lived very nearby and would frequent the place about once a week. I got to know the bartenders and waitresses there quite well and they are a great bunch of people. This is the best wine bar in Paris. The wine list changes weekly and includes usually 6 reds, 6 whites, and numerous sweet wines and liquors by the glass. The full wine list is much more extensive, of course. The overall quality of the wines is superb, ranging from good to excellent. Some examples of the better wines-by-the-glass I had at Willis include various vintages of Beaucastel Chateauneuf du Pape, Clos du Marquis, Clape Cornas, and, the best of all, a 1999 Rion Vosne-Romanee (very appropriately, this was my last wine in Paris). The price of the glasses of wines is probably higher than most places, but the superior quality (including the care they take of the opened bottles) makes it worth it. Aside from the wine, I must mention how excellent the food is. This is a very good kitchen that consistently produced very good quality, extremely tasty, and very reasonably priced food. The 3-course menu is 32-Euros and well worth it. Their caneton in 2-services was the best duck I had in Paris and it cost only 15-Euros. Also, be sure to buy one of their posters when you are there they are nice and a lot cheaper than over the Internet.
Ze Kitchen Galerie (4 rue des Grands-Augustins)
A really good restaurant find in my last week. I was walking along the Seine around lunchtime on Easter Monday and decided I would treat myself to a nice meal. I remembered reading about this place as well as the next-door Les Bookinistes. Ze Kitchen Galerie was open, Les Bookinistes was closed, so my decision was easy. I walked in (felt uncomfortable in my jeans - I had not anticipated coming here) and was treated well and seated promptly. The decor is very nice - hardwood floors, modern art, and an open kitchen. The clientele seemed a mix of Parisien (70%) and foreigners, all reasonably well-dressed. The entree (12.50 Euros) I had was really amazing: marinated sea bream (crusted with sesame seeds and other spices) with a octopus salad, served with a herring-green curry mixture in a shot glass topped with salmon roe! The visual presentation was wonderful, as was the taste of everything, esp. the herring-curry mixture. I noticed a nearby table had ordered the marinated tuna and it also looked spectacular. I would strongly suggest trying either of these. My main course (23 Euros) was lamb: sauteed loin and sweetbread. I have never had ris d'agneau before, but I just loved this! I really like lamb in general and this was better than ris de veau for my tastes. The lamb loin was cooked perfectly rose as requested. A great dish, but I wished I had had a larger portion! Looking around at surrounding tables, it appeared to me that all the fish dishes here looked really good and I will try these next time. Anyway, after 2 such great dishes, I couldn't resist dessert (9 Euros), so I had peanut-butter ice cream (more sophisticated than it sounds) with a macaron and pistachio sauce. Very good. The wines were also very nice: a 2002 Cotes du Rhone white and a well-selected 2001 Cotes de Blaye (both by the glass - around 5-6 Euros each). My one criticism is that the wines I was poured were from different vintages than mentioned on the carte des vins. However, I was clearly shown each bottle and even allowed a taste for my approval, so I wasn't upset about this. To me, this is a perfect example of an excellent modern Parisien restaurant - modern in decor and food. By the way, the unusual cutlery is apparently the work of Phillipe Starck - interesting only because I had just seen the Starck exposition at Centre Pompidou 2 days earlier.
La Regalade (49 ave Jean-Moulin)
An interesting experience. This is a small, very crowded, cramped bistro. The waiters/waitresses are constantly running and, depending on where you are sitting, you are in danger of them knocking something off your small table. Reservations are hard to get and even when we booked for 10pm, we had to wait 20 min to get seated. Having said that, the food here is spectacular and well worth the 28Euro price and the all the other hassles of this restaurant. If you think of it as a purely culinary adventure, you will enjoy yourself thoroughly. Every meal begins with the waitress presenting you with a large terrine from which you serve yourself. It was excellent. For entree, I had an incredible aspargus cream with foie gras royale. It is very difficult to describe, other than to say it was superb. The main course was a simply, yet perfectly, prepared lamb dish. Dessert was a caramelized rice pudding. They left a huge serving bowl for me to help myself! It was very, very good. We also found what I think was a relatively good price for an excellent 1990 Margaux (appellation, that is, not Chateau Margaux).
Djakarta Bali (9 rue Vauviliers)
The best Asian restaurant I went to in Paris. It was a really good, interesting Indonesian meal. The service was superb and genuinely friendly. The kitchen clearly takes pride in its food. Started with shrimp chips and a chicken-vegetable broth soup. They offered me an excellent sauce piquante (sambal-like). Then came one of the best shrimp-chicken spring rolls I've ever had. The peanut sauce was superb and so different than at Thai restaurants - it almost had a chocolatly flavour to it. The main dishes included a very nice aromatic steamed rice, a very flavourful vermicelli noodle dish, a very nice sauteed beef curry, 2 chicken satays, and a light salad. Superb and very filling. The decor of the restaurant was also very nice. I loved this place. On a return visit with my wife, it proved to be excellent again.
Le Petit Flore (6 rue Croix des Petits Champs)
A little café with what appears to be a husband (chef) and wife (server) team, who both seem very genuinely pleasant. A superb lunchtime bargain. There is a bigger seating area in the back and the service is very friendly. The food is amazing for the price: very simple but extremely well prepared. The terrine campagne was the best of the few that I had had. The best plats are magret de l'oie (very unusual even in Paris), andouillete grille, and the omelette. All plats are served with a generous portion of sauteed potatoes. The magret was cooked in an unusual style - the meat side was charred to a crisp and the fat side was browned, but hardly rendered. I was very suspicious of this, but the taste answered my questions. This worked, although those with an aversion to fat should definitely avoid this. The potatoes also were very good. The accompanying glass of Bordeaux (2.40Euros) is more than acceptable. I did not have dessert there, but even the coffee impressed me. This is a true find and a wonderful place to have lunch if you are in the 1er, eg. the Louvre.
SOME OTHER GOOD PLACES:
Casa Olympe (48 rue Saint-Georges)
Very cramped and noisy, so it can be difficult to have a conversation. Friendly service, but really great food for the price (35-Euor menu). Entrees included an excellent pumpkin soup and scrambled eggs with scallop coral (this was not so great). Main courses were seared tuna with lardoons (also very good, but not great) and a superb pigeon stew. The coffee crème brulee was amazing. The cheese plate consisted of two cheeses which were also excellent - but I don't know what they were.
LAngle du Faubourg (195 rue Fbg St. Honore)
Our first visit was amazing: superb food, superb wine at a decent price. It was, at one time, my favourite restaurant in Paris. The décor was very modern and very classy with well spaced tables. The service was superb, with the maitre d' offering us assistance in English (without our requesting it). The sommelier was also very helpful and she made some excellent choices by the glass for us. I started with the black truffle risotto (28Euro). It came loaded with freshly shaved pieces of black truffle on top and was delicious. Shibani started with a raviolis of pecorino cheese in a broccoli cream broth (16euro). This was amazing and even rivaled the risotto as perhaps the two best entrees we had ever had. My main course was a rack of lamb with lemon preserve coucous (25Euro) - it was superb. My wife had roast canette Szechuan style with various sweet braised fruits (27Euro). Her entire plate was filled with absolutely delicious items. My cheese was the tomme de brebis with a sweet gelee (8Euro) - superb again. The wines were also spectacular - 1997 Gevry-Chambertin and 2001 Brouilly for the first courses, and 2000 Minervois and 2000 Bandol for the main courses. HOWEVER . our second visit proved a relative disappointment, perhaps based on our high expectations from last time. A few simple miscues that were totally unexpected such as: having to order a bottle of water twice and having my order of Ch. Tetre Rotreboeuf 1995 being replaced by a glass of Ch. Potensac (?vintage) without any explanation. This latter wine wasn't even on the "wine by the glass" list. In retrospect, the waiter did mention the name of the wine correctly as he gave it to us, but I thought at first I simply misheard his French. I only found out about this when the bill arrived (fortunately it was 6Euro cheaper). The meal started off with a simple, but huge amount of foie gras mi-cuit. But I could not believe that the pain grille they sent to me was burnt to a blackened crisp (my wifes was fine). To me this was an obvious result of carelessness and lack of some basic attention. Otherwise, it was very nice and was what it was supposed to be, but I guess I naively expected a little bit more in terms of presentation or accompaniments. The main courses were more disappointing. While the braised lamb shoulder was superbly cooked and presented, the braised beef cheek dish was a surprisingly stingy portion - only 2 small slices of beef with a few vegetables in a small bowl. It all tasted very good, but not at all filling enough for me. Given how the meal had gone, I chose not to order a dessert while my wife ordered the Gateau "Grand Mere" aux pommes with cashew ice cream. The cake itself was just OK for our tastes, but the ice cream was superb. I took only a glass of 20 year old Taillevent Cognac - it was very nice. On the plus side, the service was still very friendly, prompt, and welcoming. In summary, this second meal, unfortunately, caused us to demote L'Angle du Faubourg from our list of "Paris must-do's" to some thing "much less".
I had read what a great bargain this place was and we were not disappointed. A 28-Euro 4 course menu of simple, yet really well executed, tasty food. We started with a beef terrine that was very nice, then on to a couple of great main courses. My wife had chicken breast in a morel sauce, with tagliatelle. I had very well prepared ris de veau in a cream sauce with sauteed potatoes. Both of these dishes were excellent. Then the famous cheese course - they set on your table a huge plate of at least 15 different cheeses and you cut off what you want. Heaven! Dessert was also very good. But the good news does not end there, for here is a simple little restaurant that does wine right (cf. Aux Lyonnais). They have an extensive, well-selected wine list which I found surprising for what I thought was a simple little bistro. Since this was supposed to be our "cheap night out" and since I had the feeling the owners took their wine seriously, I took a chance on their "wine of the moment" - a 15Euro bottle of Gaillac wine I had never heard of. It was a perfect accompaniment to the meal, esp, the cheese course, and I gladly would have paid even more for it! An overall great experience.
Jamin (32 rue Lonchamp)
A very nice, traditional Michelin 2-star restaurant with a very fairly priced lunch menu. Gracious service (mostly in English). Very expensive wine list. Started with 2 courses of very nice amuse bouche: a mini-tart of onion/jambon/gruyere and a piece of chicken in a crusty cover with a superb piquante sauce. The menu "Le Marche" is a daily, 48 Euro 4-course menu which changes daily (no choices). Began with very good fried scallops topped with sesame seeds and served with lettuce/spinach cream sauce in their shells. Next came a filet of dorade, steamed with fennel sauce and a side of pimento and olive sauces. This was wonderfully flavourful. Then a seared magret du canard topped with foie gras and a sauteed onions. Very nice. Dessert was presented as a cart - with about 8 different tartes and a choice of 3 ice creams and sorbets. We tried 4 of the tartes and all the ice cream/sorbets (mango sorbet, vanilla ice cream, mint ice cream). Everything was excellent, but the highlight for me was the grapefruit tarte and the mint ice cream. The petits fours were also all superb. Overall, a very worthwhile way to get a Michelin 2-star experience at a reasonable price. The only problem for me was that the place seemed very stiff and lacked a certain liveliness. It was a subtle thing, but I didnt feel comfortable there (unlike at Lucas-Carton, for example).
Le Tire Bouchon (66 rue des Entrepreneurs)
A really good husband-wife bistro. Started with a wonderfully delightful house cocktail: rose water, cointreau, and champagne. We had the 33-Euro menu degustation. Marbre de foie gras with rhubarb sauce was acceptable, but not great. The highlight of the night was the filet de Capitain - perfectly cooked and incredibly tasty white fish. Very impressive. An Armagnac sorbet followed - a perfect Trou Normand. Magret du canard was good. The dessert platter was also very good and inventive (incl a superb coucous and strawberry dish). Another highlight was the superb bottle of Canon-Fronsac recommended to us by the hostess: a 1997 Ch. Haut-Mazeris.
Au Cave de Francois Villon (rue de lArbe Sec)
Surprisingly good food at this last minute choice. I had had my eye on this place for a while because of its charming façade and interesting looking menu. I was greeted by the very friendly owner/host/waiter who spoke excellent English. I started with the recommended spinach salad with lardons in a balsamic vinaigrette. This was really good - I didn't think I was going to like it. Next, the rognon d'agneau. This was superb. It was cooked perfectly and not at all dry like I have come to expect from a lot of organ meats. The flavour was very good and supplemented by a very well made lamb reduction sauce. The sides were a potato galette (?) and a roasted tomato (I think these were standard for all dishes). The dessert was also very good - a rice cake with a nice creme anglaise. Top marks here for food. The downside: the incredibly slow service. A 25 minute wait between starter and plat and another 20 just waiting to get my bill. It was made easier by the fact that the owner was so nice. I suppose it would have been fine had I not been eating alone, so no one to really talk to and waste time with during all those waits!
Les Ormes (8 rue Chapu)
A good, tiny restaurant. Overlit, rather unappealing décor. The food was very good, but overpriced. An amuse-bouche of tartine of dorade - wonderful balance of flavourfuls. The entrée was a "cassoulet" of escargot with flavourful vegetables and lentils, covered a froth. Main dish was lamb pieces with winter vegetables. This was again excellent - the lamb very tender and tasty, and the vegetables again showing their full flavours. Then a choice of 3 wonderful cheeses - all fantastic. The dessert was a molten chocolate cake with awesome vanilla ice cream. They also have a very nice selection of half-bottles of wine. The price here risen substantially compared to the recent the reviews I had read, presumably in response to the recent Michelin-star. It would have superb at 32- or 35-Euro for the menu, but 45-Euros was way too much.
Le Gavroche (19 rue St. Marc)
A very good value meal can be had at this crowded, friendly bistro. The oeuf mayonnaise was very nice, but the entrecote was phenomenal. I ordered medium, but got RARE. No problems, that is the way it should have been ordered. The steak was very flavourful, although lacking the tenderness of USDA prime. For only 14Euros, it was definitely a great value. What puts this over the top, perhaps, is that it came with beautiful marrow! The marrow itself was wonderful, but pair that with a piece of steak...heaven. The accompanying wine was Georges Deres Fleurie. It was a great accompaniment.
Chez Cartet (62 rue de Malte)
Had a great dinner here with Burke and Wells back in November at the tail end of their last Paris sojourn. They have written an extensive review already about this husband-and-wife run restaurant. I have nothing more to add.
Fleur de Sel (32 blvd Montparnasse)
I must begin this section with the worst food experience of my trip. I had booked reservations at the Montparnasse location of Le Ptit Bouchon. On arriving at the location (3 weeks later), the restaurant had changed to Fleur de Sel. My friend and I decided to be adventurous and try it out. First the good things: their wine is cheap (but not very good) and our main courses were more than decent. Now the horror story I ordered foie gras as my entrée (3Euro suppl). It arrived on my plate with about 50% of the slab having already turned various shades of blue and green. I am not kidding this was literally rotten foie gras that they were serving me. When I pointed this out to the hostess, she smiled sheepishly and took the plate away and proceeded to bring our main courses. No apology or explanation. We cancelled our dessert and found on the bill that they had charged us full price for the foie gras including the 3Euro supplement. My French was not good enough to argue this. So, my friend and I paid up and salvaged our evening at Willis Wine Bar.
Chez Les Freres Gaudet (19 rue Duranton)
Very pleasant room, well spaced tables, very friendly service. Nice little amuse bouche. Crab mille-feuille (cold) was very good, but perhaps too cold. The escargot was very good - fairly routine, but well-done. The lobster fricasse was excellent. A sweet, saffron-y nage with vegetables, and a generous half-lobster meat. The cheese course was interesting - a choice of warm brie with caramel sauce (superb) or cold chevre with a wonderful vinegraitte. The one failure, however, was memorable, though not nearly as bad as the foie gras experience at Fleur de Sel. The main course of duck leg that my wife had was horrible. It was stuffed with an overly powerful nut-mushroom mixture and the duck meat itself was dry. Both of us love duck and I can eat almost anything, but this almost turned my stomach. I couldnt figure out what was wrong here .
Aux Lyonnais (rue St. Marc)
Disappointing, probably for two reasons, only one of which I can truly blame the restaurant for. The first reason may be that my wife and I just don't like this style of food, even though the restaurant may have prepared it well. The second reason is the incredibly overpriced and surprisingly limited wine list. The red wines by the glass were all Beaujolais (which I did not feel like), so I ordered the 14Euro glass of Mazin-Chambertin. Now I know enough that the price of a wine is not necessarily an indicator of its quality, but I expect a good restaurant to wade through the bad stuff and, if they dare sell such an expensive glass of wine, I would hope that it is worth the price. This was, in fact, a very mediocre wine and left me feeling very bad about the whole meal. Our entrees were some sort of an egg with salad dish - not to our liking, and a charcuterie plate that was actually nice. The main courses were much better: a seafood quenelle with ecrevisse and a foie de veau with a superb onion/potato sautee. The latter was the only highlight of the meal. Dessert was an ordinary succes chocolat. We left and drowned our sorrows in a wonderful Beaucastel 1998 CNDP at Willi's Wine Bar on the way home (Willis to the rescue once again)! Now here was a 14 Euro glass of wine that was worth it!
SOME OTHER PLACES WORTH MENTIONING:
Chez Paul Very good, very cheap bistro food.
Jardin de l'Inde - Decent Indian food.
Jardins des Shah Jahan Also decent Indian food.
Fish - Le Boissonerie A wine bar with what I found to be rather unimpressive wines and average cooking. You pay more and get less compared to Willis.
La Maison de L'Aubrac and Le Louchebem Two meat-haven restaurants serving all kinds of cuts of interesting meat products. Worth a trip to either to try some good spit-roasted suckling pig or lamb shoulder, for example.