Liquid Smoke - Processed BBQ or Not?

Question

So we have had a little discussion in a much longer BBQ thread on the LA board that was going to be off topic (thank to A & W for pointing that out) and I'm putting up this thread to continue that discussion here. Below are the posts that got this started (just to lend some context to this subject) - the last one is by A & W and says we needed to take this discussion to GT. Hope that all makes sense?

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I do not think there is an artificial smoke flavoring, just liquid smoke, which actual comes from wood that is burned and run through a still like machine and turns the smoke into liquid. It is all natural.


Burger Boy Jul 25, 2009 10:57AM
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 .
 re: Burger Boy

 which joint are you talking about that does this?

 thanks.

 kevin Jul 25, 2009 02:23PM
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 re: kevin

 I believe he is talking about the beans at Kansas City BBQ Company in North Hollywood. I was just commenting on the use of liquid smoke and how it is not artificial.

 

 Burger Boy Jul 25, 2009 10:07PM
 
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 I consider that artificial, or at least processed. Either way, it has no place in good bbq, like it sounds Kansas City BBQ Company is.

 

 a_and_w Jul 26, 2009 08:32AM
 
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 re: a_and_w

 I agree to some point, hard to get a smokey flavor in certain things without it. Processed, not really it is real smoked that has been liquified naturally. Pastuerized processed cheese food is artificial. You would never use it in a marinade or rub, but then I know some pit masters use hickory salt in their rubs instead of straight sea salt, then smoke it. is that cheating? I do not know, to me as long as it is smoked I do not care what they use in their rub or marinade, taste is the bottom line.

 
 Burger Boy Jul 26, 2009 11:48AM
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 re: Burger Boy

 After all, isn't great Q heavily "processed" through the use of wood smoke and dry rub?

 

 Servorg Jul 26, 2009 12:48PM
 
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 re: Servorg

 I have a lot to say on this subject, but I think we should probably take it over to general topics.

 

 a_and_w Jul 26, 2009 01:10PM

Answer

Thanks for the information regarding how liquid smoke is produced.

To that end, agreed, it's a "natural" product.

However, I still don't want it used in any BBQ I eat. 

BBQ is all about long and slow cooking using specific woods as a flavor component. All of that hard work, time and patience builds up the anticipation of chowing down on something truly remarkable. 

To me, using liquid smoke is pretty much cheating the time honored tradition of BBQ cooking. Adding a few drops of liquid smoke and calling it BBQ just isn't right in my playbook.

Answer

There's a recipe for kahlua pig in "The Foods of Paradise", Rachel Laudan's scholarly and delightful overview of Hawaiian food and food history, that calls for pork shoulder butt rubbed with liquid smoke and salt, allowed to sit overnight, then wrapped in ti leaves, banana leaf, and slow-cooked over water in the oven. Yes, she says, it's cheating, but it's also how most Hawaiians make it nowadays! I can tell you from ample personal experience that it is also really good.

Answer

IMO, liquid smoke is NOT artificial, though it's flavor does TASTE somewhat artificial. Compare this with Tropicana Pure Premium OJ, which, it turns out, is made from pasteurized juice sitting for many months in enormous vats and is dosed with "flavor packs" prior to bottling in order to make it taste fresh. The flavor packs aren't considered a "chemical", "ingredient", or "additive" because they are derived, after extensive manipulation, only from oranges.

All of which explains why Pure Premium stopped tasting the same a few years after it first came out.

Answer

Servorg, my apologies for the tardiness of this reply. I wrote out a much longer version about a week ago that was lost in the aether when I tried to post. Basically, liquid smoke illustrates for me the absurdity of the distinction between "natural" and "artificial" flavoring.

Liquid smoke is about as processed a product as I can think of. Such "natural" flavors are often chemically identical to their "artificial" counterparts. I don't get why people are OK with it just because it's actually derived from burning wood. Ultimately, there's something processed and fake about the flavoring whether we call it "natural" or "artificial."

Like sbp, I'm reminded of Tropicana "not from concentrate" orange juice. While ostensibly "natural," it's actually one of the most processed products in the supermarket. Tropicana removes all oxygen and flavor chemicals so the juice can be stored in vats for up to a year. Then, when it's time to package the juice, they add orange essence and oils to give it flavor.

Finally, regarding BBQ, Burger Boy makes an interesting point re hickory salt. Still, there's no question in my mind that liquid smoke is cheating. But don't take my word for it. As the website Cheater BBQ explains, "Liquid smoke is a Cheater BBQ essential—a critical ingredient for making great barbecue without a fire."

http://www.cheaterbbq.com/?page_id=58

Answer

Yes, it's processed but so is cheese, vinegar and wine. There is this idea that processed food is something that only contains chemicals, preservatives or comes from a factory when in reality, it's just food that has been changed from it's original state. Slow cooked pork with broken down tomatoes? Processed to sweet, sweet happiness!

I believe the real question then is if liquid smoke is a natural product. Assuming natural doesn't mean organic (a non-organic tomato is still natural by my definition), then liquid smoke is a natural product (at least the ones that don't have added ingredients). It should just be condensed smoke but check the labels, as always, brands vary. It may not seem like liquid smoke should be that flavorful being just water and smoke but remember, some of the tastiest bites off the grill are the small blackened bits.

Answer

Folks don't sell this stuff short! It has it's place....A large farming operation near me brings in 1500 gallons of LS in the spring of the year to use as a cattle spray and sheep dip! I take my dogs over when they are dipping sheep and have them dipped for fleas and ticks....No fleas or ticks for the rest of the year!!!!! ---- Diluted 50/50 with water and sprayed around your house it eliminates ants, cockroaches, spiders, etc for months...Like I said...it has it's place :)

Answer

This article might give some a new insight on just what liquid smoke is/isn't and how its used in our foods: 
"More recently, liquid smokes have gone beyond solely contributing smoke flavor to foods. They now function as antimicrobials, impart color, reduce warmed-over flavor and add texture. Many smoke ingredients impart very little or no smoke flavor at all."

and my favorite part (not)...we don't even have to tell you we used:
"Depending on the process you are using, you may not have to declare "natural smoke flavor" or "natural flavor" on the label," says Moeller. "If you apply the ingredient to the surface only, and then apply heat during the cooking process, it becomes part of the process, not an ingredient."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3289/is_2_170/ai_70977663/

Answer

I don't think Liquid Smoke has any place in a BBQ joint. 
I'm guilty for using it to make a quick kahlua pig recipe to throw on some rice and cabbage. . 
Liquid Smoke isn't going to make a brisket, ribs or a pork shoulder tender like slow smoking will by breaking down the proteins and collagen in the meat.

Answer

Liquid smoke has no place in traditional BBQ. Or any other dish where the smoke flavor is front and center. But for a tiny hint of smoke in the background, it does pretty well. I keep a bottle in the fridge and use it occasionally.

As a rule of thumb, Liquid Smoke is going to deliver poor results any time you're supposed to actually taste the smoke. But when you can merely sense the possibility of smoke (eg, in kalua pig, baked beans, etc.), a tiny bit of Liquid Smoke can actually enhance the dish.

Answer

I have to say, I've been noticing liquid smoke EVERYWHERE since getting into this argument. Even in my chicken tikka masala the other night!

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