Carol's Cookies, how does she get them to stay tall, not flat?

Question

I am trying to figure out a couple of things about Carol's Cookies...these are those huge, tall and round cookies, weighing about 7 ounces from Highland Park, Illiniois. Have your had these cookies???
Has anyone else tried to figure out her secret to keeping them so puffed up...and not cakey. These are not flat cookies, they are about 1.5 inches high and 4.5 inches wide. I love these cookies...but am getting sick of paying for the shipping charges...so, help me figure out what she does. Has anyone else made cookies that are not flat?? What is the secret, less butter, is it the way your combine ingredients or the mixing of ingredients?????
HELP ME figure this out!!!
Thanks!!
ABaker

Answer

Start baking in a hot oven so that the outside is baked quickly. After the outside of the cookie has set then lower the oven temp to finish baking the inside of the cookie. Unsure of the size of cookie you trying to bake, but it should take 8-10 minutes in a hot oven to set the outside of the cookie. 

Caution, if your using one of those tin baking sheets that are sold to home bakers, you may run into some issues with the bottom of your cookie becoming burnt. You may need to use two sheet pans, that way the bottom of the cookie does not become burnt. 

Also, if you don’t have a convection oven, only bake one sheet pan at a time.

Answer

I've been working on this, too. This site has been helpful:

http://www.cookiemadness.net/?cat=179

I've been playing around with the New York Times recipe. I think the long cold rest for the dough will help. Also, since the cookies are so big, I start the oven at 350 for about 8 minutes (I look at it when it has just set) and then turn down to 325 so they cook w/out browning. There is no baking powder, apparently, just baking soda, so I used 2 tsp but might use more. I've never had Carol's cookies but read that they have a strong baking soda taste. I've altered the flour to mostly cake flour, like Alton Brown's The Puffy cookie. I also played around with using a little Crisco, as in the Puffy cookie. Carol's cookies don't have it, though. Next time I'm going to reduce the sugar. I've found that makes a taller cookie, too. I don't use brown sugar but add brown sugar to white and have altered that but that didn't make a big difference in height. Also, when she bakes them, she puts them pretty close together so they touch when they're done. I wonder if that prevents more spreading, but there's the problem of getting one huge cookie if it hasn't set before touching the next cookie. But, I have to say the last batch of cookies I baked yesterday might have been the best ccc I've ever made. Using the NYT recipe, I altered the flour and increased by 2 tablespoons, used all baking soda, used 2 eggs plus an egg yolk (as a nod to the CI big and chewy ccc recipe). Let it sit overnight and baked in a doubled pan, no parchment paper or silpat. I used a cylindrical measuring cup to make the dough "balls", dough close together, then put in the freezer before baking while oven preheated. They were perfect out of the oven but flattened out some when they cooled.

If you get anywhere, I'd love to hear about it.

Answer

would less fat and a bit more flour help to prevent the melting and spreading? 

I remember back in the late 70's when these 'mounded' cookies became popular--Sunset Magazine did an article on them and called for refrigerating the scooped-out dough on the cookie sheet. So the dough and the sheet go into the oven cold. You might search Sunset archives for the recipe, for tips and techniques.

Answer

I searched at Sunset's site and found this illuminating discussion of CC recipes and dough treatments:

http://www.sunset.com/food-wine/techniques/perfect-chocolate-chip-cookie-00400000012170/

Hope it helps you.

Me, I'm going into the kitchen in search of ingredients!

Answer

I heard a recent interview on "Splendid Table" in which Dorie Greenspan said that if your cookies broke and crumbled in the mail, to toughen them up with bread flour. Until then, it had never occurred to me to bake tender cookies with bread flour, but it made sense. Maybe if you used stronger flour, the cookies would "mound up" more in the oven.

Answer

OK, I had a good day of testing recipes today to figure out this cookie. AHHH!!
This is what I have found...
1) Stiff dough is the answer for high, tall cookies, not flat ones. Well, and a large amount of dough squished into a large mound. I did 7.4 ounces of cookie dough. Mounded it high and then just slightly pushed down on the top. Slight push!
2) High heat is what will set it up and brown it slightly on the edges. I baked my testers at 400F for 16 minutes. Stayed nice and tall, fell a bit as they finished baking outside the oven, but not too bad. I took them out of the oven once I saw a nice golden brown on the edges and slight cracking towards the top. Still looked shiny and wet when I took them out. Cooled them at room temp for about 5 minutes and then to the fridge. If my freezer was bigger, I would have placed them in there. 
3) I think the real solution is in the mixing method...and a lower butter to flour ratio. 
I did NOT cream my butter and sugar together. Instead I mixed it like a biscuit dough. Mix all the dry ingredients, then cut in the butter and then add the wet ingredients. 
This gave me the exact texture of the dough I was looking for...nice big granules of sugar that you can see and feel. 
I am not done though...I think I am almost there...but I am not getting the exact texture I want on the inside of my baked cookie. I think my ratio of white sugar and brown sugar is off...so I will do more testing and get back to you all with my findings and some pics. I am just not there yet!!! Send me good vibes!!! AND thanks for all the great suggestions. I really studied all the sites and ideas to come up with my tester recipes.

Answer

Hi All!

I was glad to see this thread. A few months ago, I was completely obsessed with cloning these cookies and had a never ending stomachache from all the experimenting. My cookies were most like the ones mentioned when I cooked the butter and flour (a roux, so to speak) then made the cookies in the food processor using the cooled butter and flour mixture. Because I don’t like wasting ingredients, I kept my batches small. If you all would like to play around with it, here’s the recipe. I put links to some texture shots at bottom. The first cookie is an actual specimen (purchased at a specialty store) and the second cookie shot is my clone. 

Experimental Cookie Recipe
2 ounces unsalted butter, European style (e.g. Plugra)
3.1 oz all purpose flour (weigh the flour or carefully measure 2/3 cup plus a tsp.)
1/4 scant teaspoon salt
1/8 teaspoon baking soda
2 1/2 tablespoons granulated sugar
2 1/2 tablespoons packed brown sugar
1 tablespoon beaten egg
1/8 teaspoon vanilla extract
Small handful of chocolate chips – milk chocolate actually taste great here
European style butter works best, but if you don’t have any, you can use regular. Most important tip is to let the cookie cool completely. These aren’t very good served warm. They need to go through the whole cooking and cooling process. And, so you know what to expect going into this, these aren’t chewy.
So start by making the roux. To do this, melt the European style butter in a saucepan set over medium heat. Slowly stir in the flour and stir the flour around in the butter, coating it well, for about 3 minutes. You should end up with a thick, dry, doughy, looking mixture. It will be thicker than a typical roux. Set it aside to cool. At this point, I like to just dump it in the processor bowl and let it cool there.
It’s takes a while to cool. 
Add the salt and baking soda to the flour mixture and pulse to mix. Add both sugars. Pulse to mix. Add in the egg and vanilla then pulse until moist. Dump crumbs into a bowl. If mixture is still warm, let it cool before adding the chocolate chips. Mixture should look like a bowl of crumbs, but it will hold together when you form it.
Add the chocolate chips. Use your hands to mold the crumb/chip mixture into a big fat 8 oz ball.
Set the big ball on an insulated cookie sheet and bake for about 18-20 minutes. You can bake it as few as 18 minutes (for a softer inside) or up to 21. It won’t brown much at all. In fact, it won’t look very tasty. Let the cookie cool on the cookie sheet for about 10 minutes. Transfer it to a rack to cool for another 20 minutes or so, then put it in the refrigerator to hasten the process. Waiting is the hardest part. Remove from the refrigerator and let sit at room temp for a while. Now cut into it with a knife and serve it in little wedges.
Makes 1 giant cookie


The real thing

http://www.cookiemadness.net/?s=Carol%27s+Cookie

Clone 

http://www.cookiemadness.net/?p=2540

Answer

I've never had a Carol's cookies, but I regularly freeze chocolate chip ookie dough in a log. I have always sliced it into regular cookie slices, so I'm wondering what would happen if you made a log, froze it, and cut it into "slices" that are 2 inches thick?

Answer

Has anyone tried adding Cream of Tartar to their recipe? Carol's seems to have a very distinct "baking soda" taste. I think Cream of Tartar adds that same flavor without having the "lifting" action of the baking soda.

Answer

I saw this recipe and it says to use instant pudding for the texture.

Answer

I may have the answer to your question, but please indulge me with the preface.... Last week my 13 year old son decided he wanted to bake choc. chip cookies. I was feeling ill and would ordinarily have been happy to help him with the process, but this time I told him he was on his own. He printed out a recipe from the computer, set up the stand mixer, and preheated the oven. All of a sudden a loud "OH NO" came from the kitchen and I stepped in to help. The directions clearly stated "first cream the butter and sugars", then add.(the rest of the ingredients), .but being in a hurry and not paying attention he just dumped everything into the mixing bowl at the same time, except for the eggs, baking soda and choc. chips. Not wanting to throw good ingredients away, we decided to go ahead with the recipe anyway and just let the mixer do its thing, after 5 minutes we had a sandy mix, we added the eggs which made things a little smoother but not much, we then added the dissolved baking soda and the choc chips. The batter was more like a pie dough than a choc. chip cookie dough and the only way to gather the batter together was rolling it into balls. We placed them on the cookie sheets and baked them. They came out looking very much like the cookies on Carol's site. So, I would venture to say, just dump everything into the mixing bowl at once and roll the dough into balls and bake. What turned out to be a mistake, may be the secret to the cookie you're looking for. Please post your results if you try it.

Answer

Has anyone tried pastry flour??

Answer

What's the NY Times recipe that you all are referring to? I'm a cookie fiend, so have to try it...

Answer

Through the magic of Facebook, check out the following link - http://www.facebook.com/CarolsCookies#!/album.php?aid=61814&id=52809760689

Carol has pics of her "kitchen" which shows the cookies in ball form. Also nice shots ofthe dough. Maybe more evidence for our CSI project (Carols's Cookie Secret Investigation....)

Also - for 2011 Vday, she has a coupon code for 15% off on the FB page. 

I, too, will be delving into this project as the Whole Foods by us no longer carries Carol's product Apparently, she also sells the raw dough in the fridge section at Sunset Foods in Highland Park, IL. Perhaps a North Shore Carol's Cookie stalker could analyze the dough for the rest of us?? 
Carol, I hope you're reading this thread and laughing. :)

Answer

You guys have made me very happy, seeing that there are other people that are determined to copycat a giant cookie and having trouble! Only, I've never heard of Carol. In Atlanta we have these cookies by Rooster 14, and I was first introduced to them at a wine tasting. Imagine a giant table stacked high to overflowing with these incredible monstrosities....I still regret not shoving more in my bag and this was 6 months ago. I can't wait to try all these tips!

http://www.rooster14.com/

Answer

So I just saw a recipe for choc chip cookies that looks similar to Carol's and I think would be even more so if we chill or even freeze the rolled cookies before baking. Interestingly, you pulse the butter and flour in a food processor until crumbly, and the eggs in the recipe take the form of chopped or riced hard boiled eggs. Using hard boiled eggs in a Viennese technique that I believe produces a moist, tender, and sturdy cookie. I'll make these as soon as I can and report back. Here is the recipe, which was created by three talented bloggers, as you can read in the link: http://www.bakingandboys.com/2008/10/amazing-hard-boiled-egg-chocolate-chip.html

Answer

I won't be able to sleep at night if this thread dies.....I just had a Carol's Cookie for the first time the other day and it was incredible! They are seriously THE perfect cookie. I immediately started looking for a mock recipe and stumbled upon this forum. I've read through everyone's comments multiple times, eating up every bit of info I can get my hands on. It sounds like a few of you have come sooooo close to coming up with the recipe, but the posts all of the suddenly stopped. Has everyone given up on this endeavor?!

Answer

I realize this is an old thread, but I spent the weekend working toward cloning a Carol's Cookie -- and thanks to AnnaCG's recipe -- it worked. I've managed to make an identical clone (at least according to my tasters and my blind taste-test).

I followed the recipe -- including making the roux -- and deviated only by changing the ratio of brown sugar to white. I used 3.5Tbsp brown, 1.5 Tbsp white. I also used slightly less than 1Tbsp of a beaten egg.

The dough was incredibly crumbly -- but it matched a picture I saw on Carol's site of her cookie dough. It looks like there's not enough moisture in it, but if you ball it up tightly -- after adding the chips -- it forms (just barely, though). This seems to be (one) secret -- an almost dry, crumbly dough. I formed it and pressed it just slightly into a big raw cookie ball.

20 mins @ 350F in a convection oven. 18-19 mins for a slightly softer center (which matched some Carol samples I had. Some had slightly soft, doughy centers -- which were incredibly good when reheated slightly).

Cool for 30 mins, then directly into the freezer for 12 hours. Defrost in the fridge, then eat. A big, tall cookie that's not at all "cake-like" -- just dense, slightly chewy, with an interior texture identical to Carol's. I'd venture to say that this was *slightly* better than Carol's (or at least that's the opinion of the tasters -- however, our Carol's samples were from Whole Foods, so it's hard to tell how fresh they were. I assume they were pretty fresh, though.)

A couple other things I did:

- Made the roux with the Euro butter and flour, dumped it into a mini food processor. It was very warm, but I went ahead and pulsed it, then I added the salt and baking soda, pulsed it, then added the egg and vanilla -- pulsed it. At this point, it was cooler, so I just dumped it into a bowl, added a handful of chips, and pressed everything together with my fingers just barely wet with cold water. Another batch I made -- identical -- didn't hold together at all. So I added a bit of Grand Marnier (I just happened to have it sitting on the counter) -- a tiny bit, maybe a 1/4 tsp -- and this held it. No taste in the final product -- and no real difference in the texture. Previously (before I narrowed down the ratios and realized that the crumbly texture is the real secret here) I tried a bit of heavy cream to bind it, but the cream *did* change the cookie -- flattened it out and didn't give it the fat look of Carol's cookie. The cookie with the cream tasted really good -- thinner -- and it looked like a prototypical "chocolate chip cookie" is supposed to look: thinnish, chewy and dense. It's a great cookie, just not a Carol's clone.

- I also tried adding a bit more egg -- even tried the hardboiled egg route -- but beyond a tablespoon of egg and the cookie's texture became too cakey -- and not very good. The hardboiled egg -- actually one half of a hardboiled egg -- worked but only when I also added a bit of water (maybe 1/2 teaspoon or so). I think the moisture of the egg helps hold it together, so I'd recommend just lightly scrambling a single egg in a bowl, measure out just smidge less than a tablespoon, and then discarding (or using in something else) the rest of the egg.

- Preheated a Breville convection oven for about 15 mins to 350F. Baked on a cookie sheet with parchment. The recipe makes a cookie that's slightly smaller -- but just as dense -- as Carol's. I tried fiddling with the egg (adding more to add moisture -- but it made it too cakey) and fiddling with the sugar ratios (I used dark brown sugar and found that the more brown sugar, the better the taste -- and the closer to Carol's) and even tried splitting the batch into 2 cookies (but one big cookie seemed to work the best).

- I'm not sure the freezing and defrosting makes that much of a difference, but the defrosted cookies do have a slightly different -- better, I suppose -- texture -- so there might be something to this. Hard to tell.

Answer

Cornstarch. I kid you not. The dough will hold the shape you form. Made these for Christmas and got RAVESRAVES. I also add 2 tsp olive oil, which keeps the cookies moist for about a week

Answer

Kaffa,

Following this conversation and just saw your post. Can you explain further about the cornstarch and olive oil? Amounts, recipe you used, etc?

Answer

I just found this thread and was hoping someone had some recent revelations on a clone for Carol's cookies. I especially like her sugar and cinnamon swirl cookies. Thank you!

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