OK, happy 2019, I hope the SD CH board has great activity this year.
So, I'm beginning this year, on the SD board, with a pet peeve of mine. I really enjoy breakfast, it's my favorite meal, especially on the week-ends.
My issue is receiving my breakfast order with one piece of toast, it bugs me to no end. What is it, can't these places afford another .10 cent piece of bread?
There are several places that I enjoy, I'm not much concerned about the cost of the entree, I just want a 'proper' full order of toast.
Is it just me, or does this bug you as well.
Please comment.
It's curious that you brought this up, cstr, because my sister was in town over the weekend and my DH and I met her at Oceana Coastal Kitchen at the Catamaran for dinner. This isn't the thread for comments about the dinner, other than in one respect: This was the one and only time in memory that any of us was given exactly one piece of bread.
A "sous-server" came to the table with four kinds of bread and asked each of us (like it's done in first class on an airplane) what we wanted. She then gave us one piece each. Which was ok, because we assumed she would return. But no. She never reappeared.
So it was kind of the same thing as your experiences with being given one piece of toast at breakfast places.
Did you ask your server to have the bread server return for another piece of bread? Granted perhaps you shouldn't have to ask, but if you wanted it wouldn't asking for it have been the simplest thing. I'm not sure if you're aware, but restaurants in CA are prevented from reusing uneaten bread that's been in a bread basket on a table. I'm sure that Oceana's intent was not to limit your carb intake but to limit their waste of unused product. This sounds more like a service training issue to me.
Oh my are restaurants anywhere in the United States allowed to reuse bread.....
I can't say for all states, but most states must discard any food left on the table. Health codes.
Another reason why I ask for the remaining bread. I don't want it to go to waste, makes great toast the next morning.
LaLa...I would seriously doubt it, but each state sets their own public health laws.
P.S...LaLa is what most people call me when I travel in Mexico. My name is hard to say in Spanish, soI was christned LaLa by someone looking for an easier name to pronounce. It stuck...LOL
Restaurants cannot, in fact, afford another 10 cent piece of toast. For one: It probably costs them more than 10 cents. For two: many people will not eat that second piece of toast, and food waste is no good in an industry where the margins are incredibly low. For three: most restaurants fail within the first few years because overhead is quite high and profits are pretty low. When I was serving in Chicago , we made $3.26/hr. (plus tips, of course, which we paid out to busters, runners, bartenders, etc). Yes, below minimum wage in one of the biggest cities in the country. That's how tight margins are.
If you want a second piece of toast, order it, it's simple.
Hey Helper, welcome to the thread. I'm not buying it.
For one, OK maybe more than .10 cents, but not much more, probably in the pennies. When I'm paying $15.00 plus (and really getting closer to $20.00) for a breakfast, I think there's enough margin for a proper order of toast, if not raise the price, I'll gladly pay for it. For two; I don't waste food, I'll take it home for another breakfast snack including any portion of eggs, home fries and 'toast' etc I decide not to eat at the establishment. For three; most restaurants fail in a short period of time, some in less than a year, due to no business sense or planning on the owners part. If profits are low, the owner owns it and either needs to adjust prices or close the doors.
I get the wait person minimum wage thing, but that's not the case in CA. I never take out restaurant policy, single pieces of toast etc, out on the server's tip. Servers (most servers) work very hard.
So back to the root and thread title, IMO, a single piece of toast for a breakfast entree just has the appearance of a restaurant cutting corners and looking cheap.
Agree. Which is why those at our table at Oceana all felt it to be a surprising disappointment for the pre-appetizer part of our dinner to be a single piece of bread. Little things really do add up when dining out.
And helpermonkey, thanks for your comment. But lordie, spare us all. They can't lose an un-eaten extra slice of toast per patron "up front" in a breakfast meal without endangering the establishment's financial viability?
my point is that many people WONT eat it, so they leave it off because margins ARE tight. Just ask for another piece, what's the big deal?
And your $15 is buying a lot of overhead that I'm not sure you fully understand: To go containers, credit card fees, gas and water bills, the list goes on and on and on, expenses everywhere you look. Do you know how much restaurant equipment costs? Do you actually think it's already all paid for when the doors open? Rent?
I used to work for a superb chef who was a former economics professor - even he got bit too hard in the Great Recession. Even if you're making great food in a big city, you have to fight trends and people wanting to try the new places opening up, unpredictable income etc.
All the little things add up, that's why you see smaller portions on plates in general.
If margins are tight, deal with it, who's fault is that, the customers?
I was the 'money man' for a private fine dining club for 12 years, so I know a lot about food costs, overhead etc. Again, if you don't have a well defined business plan, don't go into business.
Just give me a full order of toast, what's the big deal!
Great banter!
Okay cstr, I'm going to go all contrarian here...
First of all, Helpermonkey is right, that slice of bread is most likely more than $.10 a slice. Depending upon who their purveyor is, and the type of bread it is, the cost is probably more likely in the $.19-.30 range. And while that might not seem like a big deal, it does have the potential to change the COGs on the dish, probably not substantially, but it could bump the dish up more than was originally intended. A well written menu, and a well informed service staff should convey to the diner whether the toast on the plate is a single or multiple slice affair.
Second, if a restaurant is buying a product it's going into inventory and, therefore, has a cost. That cost is recouped when the product is expended via a sale. While many restaurants have made good strides in reducing and controlling waste, when an item goes to waste it's like a ripple effect. If the item stays in inventory unexpensed and has to eventually be discarded BOH, then it hasn't generated any revenue for the operation and become part of the overhead eating into any profits. If products come back from the dining room uneaten, they have generated revenue, but the operator is precluded from treating them as leftovers, may or may not be able to compost, may or may not be able to donate the uneaten returned food to a charitable organization. Is food waste in the industry and issue? Yes. Will one slice of uneaten toast be an issue? Probably not, but it is a small contributing factor. There are generally 22 usable slices of bread in a loaf of regular bread typically used for toast on breakfast plates. If 22 diners return a slice of uneaten toast, that's a whole loaf that goes into the trash. If it's a busy breakfast place like Snooze, Hash House or Great Maple that does several hundred breakfast covers, it could be 2 or 3 loaves of bread going into the trash due to uneaten slices of toast begin left behind on the plate by diners. One slice of toast may not seem like a big deal to a diner, but the operator is looking at a bigger picture and seeing uneaten toast over the course of the entire breakfast service. Once again, depending upon the bakery, let's say the cost of a loaf of wheat bread used for toast is $1.87/loaf. That's 22 slices or 11 servings of toast from that loaf. If 22 diners all leave 1 slice of toast uneaten, the operator has certainly covered his/her cost for the 2-slice portion of toast, but have they also covered the cost for the back of the house labor, rent, utilities, laundry service, insurance, pest control service, janitorial supplies, and so forth...most likely not. I think most operators would rather feed people than feed their garbage cans and disposals.
Third, most restaurants fail because they are seriously under capitalized. Unfortunately, the media has painted a rather glamorous picture of restaurant ownership. It's not. It's hard and often physical work. And above all, restaurants are businesses and they are subject to some of the same principles as most other businesses. It's great for food to be someone's passion or a way to express their creative side, but they also need to understand purchasing, inventory control, personnel requirements, and the ability to set up, read and understand financial statements is key. Making good food doesn't necessarily pay the bills. Back of the house staff are generally salaried employees, not tipped. As of yesterday, those line cooks, pantry cooks and dishwashers are now making $12/hour. Operators need to understand their expenses and overhead so that they can adjust accordingly. That may mean raising menu prices, or changing/modifying recipe ingredients or purchasing habits, or hiring less staff, or more staff but for shorter hours and shifts to keep them under the dreaded 30/hr week = benefits threshold. A new restaurant owner/operator needs some deep pockets the first few years to ensure that they can cover a slow start, and all unexpected bumps in the road to success.
So in the grand scheme of things is 1 slice of toast a big deal? Probably not, but it does have some small implications in various ways. Frankly, I think one of the biggest reasons you're seeing many breakfast plates reduced to a single slice of toast is the impact of gluten free, low carb/high fat, paleo and keto diets. Bread is not the darling of plate at this time, and many diners request subs for it, I think you're simply seeing operators responding to changes in their customer base.
Hey DD,
If a piece of toast causes profit to go into a tail spin, change the price of the entree, I'll gladly pay it, just don't cheap out on the entree.
Waste is part of a well defined business plan. If you can't plan, go do something else.
Why are you excusing owner responsibility, I do agree most restaurant owners are totally clueless. That's the primary reason banks won't fund restaurants and owners have to rely on friends, family and private high interest loans.
I'm not buying the gluten free scene either. Actually, GF breads etc cost a lot more than traditional breads.
Cstr, I did not say a piece of toast will cause profits to go into a tail spin. What I said was
1) A slice of bread costs more than $.10. Some chefs are good at costing, you'd be surprised at how many are not.
2) Waste is an issue, unmentioned was shrinkage due to employee theft and misfires in production
3) I'm not excusing owner responsibility. I think a great majority of people who get into the resto business with no (or very little) experience are in for a rough ride and financially they will pay the price.
4) Having spent the last 40 years in non-commercial kitchens, and the last 28 as a director food service, I've witnessed diet trends come and go. GF, Keto and Paleo have some legs. The other thing I've witnessed are the changing taste and food preferences of the younger generations. There is far more commitment to dietary choices (such as veganism, raw, GF, and so forth) in the younger generations than there ever was in older generations. Personally, I can't see the allure in energy drinks or kombucha, but I sold the h*ll out of both to my under 25 diners.
1 slice of bread in the scheme of things might not be a big deal. If you want it, ask for it.
ok, so Dining Diva was basically gracious enough to outline in long form what I meant to hint at with my assertion that most people will not eat that second slice. I have also spent decades in restaurants, I've waited on NYT reviewers, worked in spots that are still press darlings after 2 decades, know award winning somms and have spent time in both corporate and mom and pop places. I've worked for very successful people who are still in business despite having little to no business plans when they started (I was there!) and for large corporate entities with restaurants that lost money left and right and had to close. There are a lot of factors at work.
I also agree about gluten free and paleo being driving forces behind this trend as well. It simply does not make sense for a restaurant to stretch cost when the majority of diners will not be partaking in that portion size. GF bread is beside the point - the point is that carbohydrate restriction is a very popular dining trend, so whether you are abstaining and don't care to mention it to your server (very common practice among diners who don't want to be seen as "fussy" by their dining companions) or simply cutting down (the diner that only eats half of what is served), the overwhelming trend is cutting carbs.
It makes no financial sense for a restaurant to buck these trends at their own expense with an unremarkable food item (temporary foie gras ban in Chicago was another matter - Doug Sohn of Hot Doug's made a great marketing decision to continue to serve foie gras during the ban, we served it too, but with less fanfare. I served Doug some myself when he stopped in to support us).
Everyone I worked for was largely successful and had a great business plan (except for the aforementioned corporate spot, which was my first gig in a new city). Even the chef who was an econ professor largely walked away during the great recession because he was approaching an age at which he no longer wanted to be on the line, but success is besides the point.
Business can and is unpredictable, particularly in big markets like cities where there is a ton of competition, which leads wise restauranteurs to be frugal and wise in what they put on the plate.
I fail to see how you can not seem to understand that portion control is part of a sound business plan. There are generally accepted going prices for things, and while a second slice of bread might not bankrupt a restaurant, continually throwing bread away is not part of a wise business plan and neither is raising prices to meet the demands of a minority. As someone handling finances, you should understand that your personal inclinations may be meaningless if that is not the direction of the market - and standards change. When I moved out West, I would have cut a ***** to find an affordable spot with a decent saucier, but that was not really the trend, the trend is for quick sauces etc because many people haven't dined enough to know the difference, it makes financial sense, and I understand that.
Sorry, guys. I have to agree with DD and helpermonkey here. While I can see where one might want two pieces of toast for breakfast (note: seemingly de rigueur with breakfast in the U.S.), I can't tell you how many times we've left that second piece on our plates - and have seen many not indulge at all. I think a big factor, aside from cost, could possibly be the whole bread issue in diets these days. And, if it's a higher end breakfast spot, you're probably getting better bread. More expensive bread. Not Wonder Bread.
That said, I probably ask if two slices are served when you order breakfast. Sure, it's a change, but times and costs have changed.
Or you could hit up Denny's. ;)
Perhaps, but if it's the practice of a restaurant to normally serve a single slice of toast (or bread, as in my recent experience at Oceana), IMO the onus should be on the server (in my case, the "sous server") to ask the question, not the diner.
'(note: seemingly de rigueur with breakfast in the U.S.),'
Pretty much the baseline in the US, except this culinary wasteland here in SD.
You can talk food cost, personal preference, leaving food on the plate, etc. it doesn't change the perception of the establishment. Cheap!! or Uppidy!!
Oh, and while I respect your personal preference on food, don't enforce your food preference on me! I think I'm in the majority on this issue.
The other issue is asking for a full order and getting hammered for an extra $3.00 +/- for a 'side of toast'. Hidieous!!
Lastly and quite often, in x months from now, we'll be saying "it's so sad to see that y restaurant is closing", what could have happened? it didn't even make x year(s).
I can't wait to go to breakfast Sunday!! I enjoy continued patronage and support of my favorite local, non-corporate non-chain, breakfast spots.
I, for one, am a little surprised that a "money man" doesn't know the difference between 10 cents and .10 cents...unless you really think 10 slices of bread can be had for a penny!
Heh.
Seriously, though, if this is a pet peeve, be thankful: life must be pretty good for you. In the grander scheme of life, this is NBD.
Com'on ricepad you can do better than that! You've been around CH for some time, give your opinion on the thread.
I think my point is about what is (and has been for ever) a 'standard' vs the little bubble I live in out here. The excuse about cost dismisses any lack of business savvy on the owners part. Price it, make it good, deliver it and I'll pay for it.
The other point is how incredibly quick restaurants come and go out here. Just say'n!
Yes, life is good, thanks for the mention.
Ok, here's my take on it. It does seem odd to get just a single slice of toast with your breakfast. I rarely have breakfast out, but everywhere I go, it's two pieces of whatever they're serving, except for bagels and English muffins (but each sliced in half). That goes for biscuits if they're offered: two biscuits per order/side.
If the places you frequent have changed from two pieces to one, ask why they changed. And if that's the way it's always been, all you need do is ask for two pieces...and volunteer to pay the extra .10 cents (ha!).
Kidding aside, if you asked for two pieces of toast AND said you'd be willing to pay for it, you'd be sending a clear message to the establishment what the customer wants. That speaks volumes.
Seems simple enough, right? I've been in the industry since the 90's and its always been one slice of toast cut in half for two pieces, unless you go to Denny's, as someone mentioned, or some other cheap dive where you do, in fact, usually get two pieces. I used to sling brunch in the beginning and I do not believe I ever heard a complaint over one slice of toast. Cstr, I hate to break it to you, but I do personally think you're in the minority. Also, I don't think it's the server's responsibility to address what you consider the "norms" in dining, especially when it comes to portion size. Restaurants can do things differently, and guess what? It's literally their business. If you don't like it, don't go there, problem solved. Believe me when I say there are customers restaurants are happy to lose.
Brockton Villa, although the only thing on the menu that's worth anything, IMO, is their Coast Toast. Then there's Shorehouse Kitchen, Le Papagayo, both off these offer good omelet options, but dang one stinking piece of toast, really!! I really like Shorehouse, excellent offerings and good coffee.
She never said the toast was piddly; just solo.
Unless that toast is made from hearty, multi grain bread, I need two; or, at least one per egg (2:3 if with an omelette).
I think the waitstaff asking one or two is professional and responsible: good business practice.
Personally I never eat breakfast out. It is the easiest and least expensive meal to make, and my coffee is better than 99% of the places I might go to. Plus, I almost never eat toast.
i think rather than being outraged, you might just order more toast if that's your thing.
I had a good breakfast at Coyote Cafe in Vista, I ordered an omelet with
mushrooms, sausage and swiss. It also has good crisp home fries, My toast selection (full order with 2 pieces) was sour dough.
The coffee was serviceable and service was good. If you're in the 'hood, it's worth a stop.
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