"Red sauce" Italian restaurants - what does it mean
I often see this description of Italian restaurants on the boards I've been searching. It's usually being used in a derogatory way (for instance I was warned against NYC's Little Italy as the restaurants are all "red sauce".)
But can you explain to this Brit what it refers to; what it means and how a "red sauce" place is different from other types.
It's not a term we have the UK. For us an Italian is an Italian is an Italian (although we might distinuish between northern and southern cuisine).
TIA
Brit on a Trip
Apr 27, 2007 03:07PM
IMO, It's meant to describe the style of Italian cuisine and in my area, that would be more Italian-American with a variety of simple pasta or meat dishes involving a tomato based, usually long cooked, aka "gravy".
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I think that's accurate. You're likely to see mostly pasta dishes with various versions of tomato based sauces (marinara, meat sauces, mushroom sauces, etc but all with tomato) and most likely the occasional linguini with clam sauce and appetizers like fried mushrooms or cheese bread. As opposed to "high end" Italian where you'd see more seafood preparations and other regional dishes.
Personally, I like both and just because something is a "red sauce" restaurant doesn't mean I won't happily eat there. Most do mean it as a derogatory term.
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In the town where I grew up in California, all the Italian restaurants are "red sauce" places, meaning:
The pasta is uniformly overcooked
The quality of ingredients is sub-par
There are often plastic grapes hanging from the ceiling, or a chianti bottle in a basket used as a candle for decorations
The tablecloth is red and white checkered
The "red sauce" is incredibly reduced and usually sweet. It is often poured over the pasta which wasn't drained properly, so the edges of the sauce become watery.
The selections generally consist of spagetti, or penne, or linguine with a choice of red sauce, meat sauce, white sauce, or with meatballs or sausage
Serves garlic bread that isn't rubbed with butter, but rather spread with a rather insipid mixture of butter and old pureed garlic
Are generally "Famous for their lasagna"
Generally serve meat or cheese ravioli that are commercially bought, not homemade
Generally have a horrible wine selection
Serve the salad with a selection of Ranch, Bleu Cheese, Thousand Island, or Vinaigrette
In other words, in this day and age there is still remarkably some absolutely awful Italian food to be had. I'm not saying Italian needs to be fancy, but it's almost impossible to find a decent pasta pomodoro or pasta aglio olio, with 99% of "red sauce" restaurants browning the garlic.
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"Red Sauce" can have good or bad connotations:
Good -- familiar, comforting foods that perhaps arose more in Italian-American communities than in Italy itself. Obviously, this category would include a lot of tomato sauces, but would also feature baked and/or stuffed pasta dishes and dishes such as eggplant parmigiana. Done right, "red sauce" Italian can be wonderful, hearty, comforting food.
Bad -- All of the issues identified by fooddude37. I recently endured a dreadful meal at a popular restaurant in Baltimore's Little Italy. My main course was a huge plate of mush that may have originated as pasta but had been transmogrified into something scary.
One clue: If you ask for your pasta al dente, and the server doesn't know what you're talking about, it's not a good sign. Sadly, in many of the neighborhoods in major American cities known for Italian food, restaurants tend to veer toward the bad type of red sauce in an effort to pander to touristy tastes. I've found this to be true during recent visits to Little Italy in Baltimore and the Hill in St. Louis. On the other hand, I've often found the best red sauce Italian to be located in small neighborhood restaurants in suburban strip malls. Not all of these places are good, but there's an occasional gem out there.
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"Transmogrified"...isn't that word coined by Calvin?? Excellent etymological reference...
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Silverbear says, "One clue: If you ask for your pasta al dente, and the server doesn't know what you're talking about, it's not a good sign"
Huh. I have to say, most of the servers I've encountered would be not so much uncomprehending of the term "al dente," as stunned at what that request *implies*.
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"Red sauce" Italian doesn't really distinguish a good vs. bad restaurant but describes a type of food that is considered Italian-American food. I've been to plenty of "red sauce" italian restaurants that executes their classics very well. They typically have dishes like baked ziti, chicken/veal/eggplant parmesan, linguini with white or red clam sauce, spaghetti with meatballs, etc.
If you are looking for regional italian food (or even "authentic" Italian) then you should most definitely avoid places categorized as red sauce.
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Thanks, folks. I think I begin to understand now. Not always bad - but not great. And I'm certainly familiar with neighbourhood restaurants with at least some of fooddude37's markers
I adore baked ziti, though . It's not a dish that regularly appears on restaurant menus in the UK - and I'd never heard of it until I watched an episode of the Sopranos. Have now discovered a nearby place that serves it - I'd describe it as "red sauce - with pretensions" (?)
John
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I always used the term to refer to the little restaurants in Brooklyn neighborhoods patronized by people whose ancestors came from little villages in the region around Naples (e.g. Teggiano) and serving dishes which represent the fruit of seeds (recipes) brought from Italy and then grown for a hundred years on American soil. Many dishes are served with red sauces, but there are many many different red sauces. Whenever I come here, I told one restaurant-owner, I wear a red shirt so the spots are less noticeable.
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You might also hear "red sauce Italian" used in describing a more southern Italian cuisine - one that relies more on tomatoes than northern Italian does. I don't necessarily think of the term as being derogatory.
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Totally agree - it's a homey, rustic style of cooking as opposed to the more "refined" cuisine of the north. Heavy on tomatoes and seafood, it's comfort food when done well. But I do agree with other posters that the term is often used in a derogatory sense.
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In Philly we're rather proud of all of the (mostly BYO) red gravy (not red sauce) restaurants we have. Like anywhere, some are better than others and it all depends on if you want a really good lasagne, veal parmagiana, or spaghetti and meatballs and don't feel like making it yourself. Nothing wrong with that. The ones I go to make their own pasta, have access to excellent veal, and serve good antipasta and bread. The best serve food using recipes that are closely guarded family secrets and are nothing to be sneered at. We also have plenty of restaurants that serve excellent regional Italian cuisine that is much less tomato based. It just depends on what you're in the mood for.
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Ellen, what do you recommend for good byo;red gravy restaurants in Philly?
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Well the one place I would always go to in philly was Villa Di Roma. I never had a dish with a red gravy on it either.
Excellent clams oreganata as an appetizer, chicken neopolitan (chicken in an excellent olive oil and garlic sauce), or chicken livers Romano or Caruso.
They have all the traditional stuff too, but a lot of unique dishes as well.
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In the Queens neighborhood of my youth, "gravy" was usually reserved for the Sunday meal when the base sauce included braccioli, sausages, meatballs, etc. A straight tomato/basil/olive oil/garlic rendition - with no meat - was "sauce".
And I totally agree: "red sauce" restaurants can be as good or as bad as any other kind of eating establishment - just like pizzerias!
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I think "gravy" is a translation in some parts of the US of "sugo" as opposed to salsa - that is a sauce made by braising meats in a tomato sauce. A time-honoured way of cooking in some Italian regions where there were a lot of tomatoes (and cheap red wine) and meat was usually tough as it had been on the hoof in mountainous areas - making it tasty but far too tough to eat as a steak.
I have never heard it here in Mtl (despite a lot of strange influences from French and English in Italian terms) - marchéta = marché(market) = mercato), ruella = ruelle (alley or lane) = vicolo, garbage - pronounced in a way that doesn't exist in English, let alone French or Italian = rifiuti... or anywhere in Canada, though perhaps someone has.
I think it has become derogatory not only from a certain form of food snobbery but also because it is associated with dreadful chains (here - "East Side Mario's - a fake NYC Italian resto). But at its best it means an unpretentious family restaurant with good homey food.
Italian emigrant food has evolved just as much elsewhere - I've been to Argentine barbecues where alll the salads and sides were pure Italian, but the meat/veg ratoio would be utterly unfathomable in Italy! Think something similar has happened in Australia...
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'Gravy' was my family's generic name for red sauce, meat or not. Just as pizza was called a-pizza. Both were delicious in my family.
As to 'red sauce/gravy' places, I find most of them homey and unpretentious and perfectly fine in terms of food and prices and servers.
I wish I could say the same for most of the snooty 'authentic' Italian places I've been to. Fortunately, there are new ones in lower Westchester that are quite good to outstanding.
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I have to agree with Ellen. I don't think the "red sauce" connotation is a bad thing at all. In Philly, a "red gravy" place serves all kinds on non- sauce dishes, like linguine & clams or veal. Sometimes you're in the mood for an excellent eggplant parmigiana or a veal francaise with local crusty bread.
As far as "red gravy" places go in Philly, here's my list:
Villa di Roma (my favorite)
D'Angelo's
Scannichio's
Ralph's
Bomb Bomb Bar & Grille (their known for their ribs, but they make a great chicken parm)
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