Dried Beans – to soak or not to soak, that is the question
I’ve decided 2007 is the year of the bean where I get to know different types. I’m starting with yellow canary beans ... some Mexican, some Peruvian.
Anyway, should dried beans be soaked? This site doesn’t seem to think so saying ...
“Some say soak your beans, don't do it, cook them hard and fast, you get better taste”
http://huichol-art.com/chavies/Beans.html
Do you just use enough water to cover the beans if you cook without soaking?
If you do soak beans, is there such a thing as over-soaking? I found this chart for the minimum times of soaking various beans, but no maximum times.
http://missvickie.com/howto/beans/bean-categories.html
Found an old Chowhound thread with a little about over-soaking ... leads to fermentation. It also suggests beans don’t need to be soaked at all.
http://www.chowhound.com/topics/298684
I was thinking of either cooking up the beans right now or (as of noon) soaking the beans to cook about 1 day from now.
There are suggestions for quick soaking ... bring beans in water to a boil for 3 minutes. Remove from stove (I assume). Leave in water for 2-3 hours then cook until tender. So if I do this does that mean when I cook later on that I bring the beans back to a boil and simmer until tender?
Also, does the soaking pot matter? Does it matter if I just put them in a mason jar or do I need a larger bowl for more exposure to water?
The Mexican beans I have came in bulk ... so no instructions. The Puruvian beans just have a recipe for Frijoles Criollos which says basically after cooking some onions & garlic in 2 oz of oil, add beans oregano, salt, pepper & tomato paste and cook for 45 minutes. Doesn’t have measurements other than the oil. Doesn’t say anything anywhere on the package for cooking the beans.
That being said, with all my beans this year I just want to cook them plain first to get the basic flavor/texture.
So ... to soak or not? Maybe this should also be the year of the cooking class for me too.
rworange
Jan 15, 2007 08:08PM
I say soak overnight and rinse....know that most legumes will expand 3X so make sure you leave room in the container...rumor has it that an overnight soak will also help release the gaseous enzymes...
Also, cooking dried beans is certainly doable but much care/attention is needed to make sure they don't burn as they'll absorb much more water than soaked beans...
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I'm a fan of the quick soak - boil, turn off heat and let them sit with the lid on for an hour. Drain, cover with fresh water, boil hard for 10 min, skim off any scum, then add aromatics and simmer till done.
According to Deborah Madison, soaking shortens cooking time, allows beans that are dry or immature to float to the surface where they can be skimmed off, and removes some of the complex sugar that causes indigestion. She goes on to say that while beneficial, soaking CAN be skipped - particularly if you are using a pressure cooker.
As far as a "overnight" soak, most beans absorb all the water they will within 4 hours.
Make sure to cover your beans with lots of water when soaking (at least 4 times the volume of your beans).
And of course, lentils don't need to soak at all.
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I used to soak, but not anymore. When we were doing Bayless for Cookbook of the Month I was reading a lot about Mexican cooking, not only because I knew nothing about it but because I thought the directions and explanations in his Everyday cookbook just weren't as good as in his previous books and in other books on Mexican and Southwest cooking. Anyway, can't quote the source, but one of the authorities I was reading said, essentially, why soak the beans and throw out all the flavor that's leached into the soaking water. Made sense to me. Haven't soaked since. I rinse them, cover with about 2 inches of water, keep the water at that level throughout the cooking, and cook at the barest simmer (so the beans don't burst)for about 3 hours. I've done this with both pintos and black beans and have been very pleased with the results.
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This makes total sense. Thanks for this, I will heed your advice. I also use a pressure cooker many times for beans, especially ones with ham hocks.
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I think that the soak to some extent is needed, with some beans. Black beans are tough to get soft, for example. But, soaking with or without a boil, and for long or shot times (long without a boil will lead to fermentation), is not a big deal. I prefer a cold soak with a bean that softens easily, like a lentil, and a boil with a harder bean like the black.
Throwing out the water is throwing of flavor. So, I wash them well, before I soak, then soak and keep the water for when I cook the beans.
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I have never soaked lentils. I have always thrown out the soaking water, so I won't do that anymore. Have always washed well and picked over.
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I can't detect any difference between soaked and unsoaked beans. So I soak, to save money on fuel. And I don't throw out the soaking water, I cook the beans in it.
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I have been told that the soaking water contains most of the indigestible "gas-causing" elements of the beans, and should be discarded.
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It is true, according to Harold McGee, that the soaking water contains the gaseous elements in the beans. But if you throw it out, you're also throwing out significant vitamins and minerals. Long, slow cooking will break down those elements and make them digistable.
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You're probably all bored to death with my saying this, but I have lived in Mexico for nearly 26 years.
I do not know a single Mexican cook who soaks beans.
Naturally, YMMV.
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Never bored, cristina ... tried the first batch unsoaked. They were fine. I'm soaking some tonight to see if the taste/texture is any different. I will tell you that those beans from Peru taste like ... beans.
Unsoaked beans DO absorb lots of water as noted.
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Just curious-- do many of them use pressure cookers?
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Yes, many Mexican housewives use pressure cookers for beans. Many more still use the traditional covered clay pot, which imparts a flavor that a pressure cooker cannot.
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as a sidebar, the more frequently you eat beans, the less reactive your system will be to the potential gassy after-effects.
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Not true in my case (blushing)
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Nor in my case either (also blushing)
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I soak if I'm cooking pintos or I'm going to be pressed for time. Lentils, as someone mentioned, don't need soaking. My mom gets these Anasazi beans that are like pintos but cook a lot faster. I don't soak them. With those beans I can decide at 5 that I want beans for supper and have them happily done and on the table, along with cornbread and whatever else I want, within an hour and a half. Can't do that with pintos!
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Interesting thread on this here:
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/fo...
Very last post says the reason I'd heard-- soaking leaches out the phytic acid, which is an anti-nutrient (blocks absorption of lots of other stuff). The America's Test Kitchen pH level tests were informative, also.
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One of my Mexican friends here in Patzcuaro turned us on to Peruano (Peruvian) beans. Much better than pinto. We are at 7800 feet, so I combine a short pre-soak with the pressure cooker and have fantastic beans in about 1 hour. I bring the beans up to a boil, cover and let them sit on the stove (heat off) for about 10 minutes. I then rinse and start again in the pressure cooker with fresh water. After the pressure cooker goes its magic, I adjust seasoning and mash some of the beans against the side of the pot to make a thicker broth.
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I am a U.S.A citizen living in Mexico for 6 years and have observed many Mexicans cooking in restaurants and at home. No one soaks beans, either quick method or overnight. I agree with an earlier poster, that the more your eat legunes, the more used to their possible "effects". Another consideration is the freshness of the dried beans. If you live in a city with a Latino community, try buying your beans in bulk. They will be as fresh as are possible, and certainly fresher than those in the 1# bags at the supermarket.
Never boil hard, simmer at a slow pace, with a couple of cloves of whole garlic, that can be removed later. Never salt until completely cooked, as salt tends to make the skins tough.
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I, too, have just started exploring the wonders of the dried bean and have been having great success. My favorite way to prepare them is in the crock-pot using the recipe from Mexican Everyday by Rick Bayless as a jumping off point. Basically, I put the beans (unsoaked) in the crock-pot and cover them with more than an inch or so of boiling water. I usually throw in some garlic, onion, and maybe a chipotle pepper. Then 3-4 hours on high or 6 or more hours on low (depending on the type of bean) and I've a got a really flavorful pot of beans ready to go - couldn't be easier!
I found the recipe as it's written in Mexican Everyday to have too much water for my taste (more like bean soup than beans in a thick bean-y sauce) so I start with enough water to cover plus and inch or so and then check it after a few hours to see if it needs more water.
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Actually, Goya beans are generally very fresh, and they have easily decipherable date codes, though you do have to look closely for them, they're in small type sort of randomly wherever the printing head hit the bag on the back. The format is right on their own website: first three digits are the day of the year, the next 2 the year, the others the packing plant ID. (I think these are on their canned beans, too.) In NYC anyway, pretty much any regular food store in existence carries them, in some neighborhoods, in variety that would surprise many people.
Bulk can be worth it (or 5lb Goya bags) but it's usually not a lot cheaper and then, you either have to use them or end up eating beans that got old sitting on your shelf rather than the store's. No point in that in that to save maybe $.25-.50/lb.
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I love beans, any color any shape from any country. I have done both methods, only because I have forgotten to soak the beans overnight and have been rushed to cook the beans for that day.
I like to make beans that are more like a bean stew. I do clean them, pick them over and cook them in water they soak in.
Black beans say for a salad I prefer firm, but will puree when making a black beam soup with bacon, lime, crema and cilantro.
I've talked with several "close" friends and we find that not all beans, affect our digestive system the same way. Some say that they have no problem with the red bean, but the black bean ,their favorite, well, that is another story.
Has anyone heard to add a tablespoon of vinegar to the beans while cooking? Or is that an old wives tale?
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I have better luck using the crockpot for beans also.
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Thanks all.
I just suck at cooking. I just don't have the patience ... even for something like beans ... burnt two batches ... though I did get into the smokey flavor of the burnt beans and the crispy pieces ... sort of veggie carnitas.
Cant tell you about the nutrients lost, but there wasn't much flavor difference between soaked over-night and unsoaked. It was more of a matter of cooking time as someone else noted.
The soaked beans took less time to cook ... about 1/3 the time.
There MIGHT be a flavor difference but I'm not sure if it had to do with how long I cooked each batch.
I found the longer the beans cooked, the more water they absorbed and the flavor started to get lost.
No kidding about the beans expanding when soaked overnight. I was thinking the soaked beans were a little more watery ... but again ... might have cooked them too long.
The last batch (unsoaked) I tried while they were a little underdone. They were amazingly tasty ... sweet and nutty. When they became softer there was no sweetness left. Maybe the sugar in the bean converted to starch in the cooking process?
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This may be 'controversial' but I soak beans overnight in Chicken Broth. My rule of thumb with cooking is why use water when I can use chicken broth? With rice, with soups, with almost anything (Well, not a cake). I let the beans soak overnight in chicken broth, rise them thoroughly, then cook according to whatever recipe I am using. If someone is a vegetarian, I say, use vegetable broth. It just adds even more flavor.
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I would advise against leaving broth out overnight. It is a very favorable environment for the breeding of bacteria.
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You're right about the bacteria, but once the beans are brought to a boil and then simmered for an hour or more the bacteria will die.
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IMO---
There is only 1 main advantage for soaking beans. It helps clean them.
Saves time?
No, its an additional step and ones bad in math, seldom adds the soaking time into the cooking time. Proportionaly preposterous!
Cook-M-&-Git-R-Done! :-D
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What is the additional step? When you soak you just wait a few hours between two steps in unsoaked beans. The savings are in cooking time and fuel - not time elapsed from the first thought of cooking beans.
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Ok, here is a random reciepe for GN beans.
""Preparation, uses, and tips
Before cooking, soak the beans for 8 hours and pressure cook for 20 minutes, __or__ simmer on the stove for 1 1/2 to 2 hours. After cooking with savory spices, Great Northern beans can be puréed into a delicious soup, sauce, or pâté. 1 cup of dried Great Northern beans yields approximately 2 1/2 cups of cooked beans.""
You have 8:20 (Eight hours and twenty minutes) invested in the first scenario OR the 10 hours total in the last. Choice given is to pressure cook or simmer the soaked beans.
Mine would be to simmer for 5 to 6 hours and serve. Also, any slow cooked bean seems be greatly enhance in flavor, with additional simmering.
I do not think soaking the beans helps retain the good flavor and at room temp soaks there is food borne bacteria risks. Cooking doesn't cook out all harmful bacteria.
> > The savings are in cooking time and fuel < <
That is where I disagree. Time is in the labors of the meal. From the beginning to the end...
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just a neurotic correction...cooking DOES kill all harmful bacteria, but doesn't destroy all toxins that said bacteria produced while they were living.
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For Mexican or otherwise creamy or long-cooked beans, I don't see any reason to soak. However, if you're cooking dried cannelinis you absolutely need to soak, and the reason is for consistency. If you don't soak beans that you aren't turning to mush, i.e. using for salad, and you cook them you will find that by the time some are cooked through others are still way underdone. I'm not sure why beans are this inconsistent but I've done this experiment at home. (Actually it wasn't an experiment, twice I needed cannelini bean salad for a potluck and I didn't soak and they were a nightmare.)
For a quick soak I start the beans in plenty of cold water, bring up to a boil, boil for one minute, turn off the heat, and let them come down to room temp. Strain, add fresh cold water, bring up to a gentle simmer, and simmer until tender, strain and cool.
This is for cannelinis only (or any other bean you wish to keep whole, like garbanzos)
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I always soak my black or garbanzo beans overnight. Yes, I add one tablespoon of vinegar per 1 lb bag of black beans. This adds great flavor.
As far as Mexican Pinto beans go, my abuelita (grandma) and the rest of my family never pre-soak.
Some beans are quite tough and will require overnight soaking. Avoiding this will increase the cooking time significantly.
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I have learned that the older (meaning shelf life) the beans are, the more need for an overnight soak. It is important to find a source at your local farmers market who can sell you bulk beans. I only buy lentils at the supermarket.
Also it depends on what type of bean. I learned recently of a simple Kritan (Cretan) recipe which does not require an overnight soak, although half way through the cooking time, you drain the beans, wash and start with fresh water again. The man who gave me this recipe said this way the beans won't turn that ugly gray color. Sure enough I made perfect beans, the recipe calls for draining the beans, serve on a small plate add thinly sliced onion on top a little parsley drizzle with olive oil and lemon juice. Simple and perfect dish. Oh and you salt in the last part of cooking the beans.
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That sounds good. What kind of bean does that recipe call for?
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Dear Fooddude,
So sorry I failed to mention that, as it is vital!!! Black eyed peas. This is classic Cretan fare. The meal always starts off with bread rusks and olives, then a plate of really great potatoes baked, cut open then drizzled with very good quality olive oil (Sitia .03 if you can get it), dried oregano, salt and pepper (the point here is to have excellent potatoes, I learned what a potato is supposed to taste like when we moved here.)the thin skinned golden potatoes are in my memory what would be best if I were in the states. Then we might have snails, eggs cooked in Staka, pasta boiled in goat broth (my favorite)mountain greens with lemon and olive oil, and some herb I have never in my life had with just lemon and vinegar.
It all sounds so simple, but every time we go to this taverna, I cannot believe how good it is. It helps the owner plays the mandolina, oudi and whatever instrument he happens to have hanging on the walls.
Also, another similar bean dish is with canolini beans mixed with arugula topped with red onions and drizzle of Olive oil and lemon. excellent.
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I thought for years that I hated dried beans. Turns out it is pre-soaked dried beans that I hate. I never soak beans anymore, and to my taste, the flavour is much much better.
Russ Parsons discusses this in depth in his book "How to Read a French Fry" - well worth a read for its overall simple introduction to kitchen science. His conclusion is that soaking beans can minorly shorten the cooking time (10-15 minutes in his experiments), at the possible expense of taste (if you discard the soaking water), and does nothing to reduce the level of gas causing compounds.
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One more voice here!
There are many different families of beans so you can't speak in absolutes when it comes to cooking them. Also freshness is a key to how long they will take to cook.
Phaseolus vulgaris don't really need to be soaked but I think they have a nicer texture when they are.
I tend to soak 4 hours and I keep the soaking water. The bean broth is tastier if you don't use too much water and one advantage to soaking is you can judge the water better.
The Quick Soak method makes no sense to me. If you are soaking them in hot water, you might as well be cooking them.
I have found Russ Parson's method of not soaking and "baking" in the oven inconsistent.
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Of course you soak beans. And, I would advise you to discount any post that says otherwise. The creation of unwanted intestinal gas (unless you enjoy passing gas, and ruining everyone else's day), begins with the arrival of small chains of carbohydrates (called oligosaccharides) into the large intestine. People cannot digest these molecules efficiently, but bacteria residing at the end of the gut do and produce gas as a byproduct. Overnight soaking removes 28% of the "gas-causing" material in beans, and the quick soak, amazingly, removes 42.5% of the gas-causing material. Does presoaking affect the taste and texture of the bean? Not withstanding the posts I've read here, in my opinion, there is no noticeable difference. Do your guests thank you the next day, because they are not creating a fire hazard in their bedroom that night, by passing gas (LOL)? In my experience the answer would be yes.
My source for the percentages of intestinal gas production comes from "Cooks Illustrated", a wonderful magazine.
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'Removes', or 'destroys'? Are we talking soak, drain, add new water, and cook? Or soak and cook?
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Although I'm not a chemist, I would guess that soaking "removes" the oligosaccharides. So, I would soak, drain, and add new water.
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Other "experts" disagree.
I know in Mexico they never soak and I've never experienced a problem there.
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I don't soak, and I use a preasure cooker. I guess I like it fast.
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I soaked some white kidney beans apparently not long enough (2 hours), then tossed them in a soup with chicken broth and salt. Cooked for nearly 3 hours, thinking they would soften up. But they never did completely...I guess the salt prevents that. Is it still OK to eat these beans?
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It's been shown that salt does not lead to hard beans. Acid on the other hand does keep beans from softening and old beans will never soften.
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Daisy Cooks with Daisy Martinez this a.m.: no soaking for any bean except garbanzos. she cooked "dried white navy beans" from dry to done in two hours. A revelation.
This is not from today's show, but shows her technique --- here with black bean soup:
http://www.daisycooks.com/pages/recip...
ps she adds no salt until they are cooked.
ps her sofrito addition looks PERFECT for flavoring here!
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i do the "quick method" soak. rinse and cover with water. bring to a boil and boil for 2-3 minutes, then take off the heat and leave covered for approx 1-2 hrs (vs 8 or overnight). then cook for about an hour or so depending on the bean.
dont add seasoning until they're cooked through...salt/sodium will stop the softening process.
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I listen to Rick Bayless and don't soak. Pork fat, onion, rinsed beans, boil until tender, then add salt and cook 15 minutes more.
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I've been working my way through the various vintage 2007 dried beans sold by Tierra Vegetables in Santa Rosa these past two months. I've either cooked them directly or used the quick soak (boil briefly, toss water, add fresh water to cook) method. Since they're so fresh, the direct cook method is fine and they're tender in 30 minutes or less usually. The quick soak gives a more consistent result with fewer hard pellets and the beans seem less gassy to me, so that's what I use. For soups that I'll be simmering for an hour or more, I just toss the dried beans in the pot.
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