Browsing on your mobile phone? Take a look at our mobile edition »
Now what?
All my googling didn't answer my questions:
what's the ratio of g.g. to liquid?
does this break down when heated (like cornstarch can)?
Anything else I should know?
Any help would be appreciated 'Hounds.
Thanks!
hbgrrl
Aug 23, 2006 12:20AM
Who's Talking?
In the Chowhound Boards
In Blog Posts
Anchovies are overfished, says a new UK guide to sustainable seafood. More...
Nicholas Day
yesterday at 4:55pm |
Comments (1)
How the tea bag came to be. More...
Meredith Arthur
yesterday at 3:25pm |
Comments (0)
Asian condiments create contentment. More...
Cicely Wedgeworth
yesterday at 12:11pm |
Comments (0)
My Hawaiian vacation fantasy. More...
Daniel Duane
Wednesday, July 9, 2008 at 3:45pm |
Comments (8)
I'd be careful with that stuff. Many people cannot tolerate it. I avoid it whenever I can. The consequences of eating it are not good.
Permalink | Reply
I'm not doubting you, but this is the first time I have ever have heard of this. I have used guar gum for a long time, especially in vinaigrettes. I've literally served it to hundreds of people and never had any complaint. It is a also a common ingredient in commercially prepared and processed foods.
Permalink | Reply
Candy, see my full explanation below. People who cannot tolerate it are probably using it incorrectly (and often unknowingly).
Permalink | Reply
Guar gum has almost 8 times the thickening power of corn starch. Corn starch has twice the thickening power of flour. So, if you traditionally use 2 T. flour per cup of liquid, that would translate into 3/8 t. guar. Roughly.
Guar doesn't break down like cornstarch when heated. Technically, guar requires no heat to thicken, but it takes quite a long time to hydrate, so heat is generally recommended.
Guar clumps like crazy when added to liquid. Some people put it in a salt shaker and shake it into the liquid while whisking vigorously. That works pretty well. If the lumps aren't too big, letting the sauce sit for a while should help.
Make sure you smell it before you use it. Some brands of guar are quite beany tasting and you'll want to use it in applications where the taste isn't noticeable.
Besides being potentially beany tasting, guar, like all soluble gum fibers makes for slimy textured sauces. If this is an attempt to cut carbs, there's better options. If carbs are not your concern, definitely use something else. There's much better tasting thickeners out there.
Permalink | Reply
You sound like you know what you are talking about, scott123. I want to try and make homemade granola bars, but they always break apart, never chewy and soft. I saw a recipe using guar gum, but all it did was make a clumpy mess. Any ideas on how to make the granola bars better?
Permalink | Reply
Thanks for your quick replies.
Into the trash it goes. I'm really disappointed because this was highly recommended by an accomplished cook-friend of mine. >:-(
O.K., so carbs are definitely NOT an issue with me, but sauces breaking down ARE.
I've 'done' Wondra, cornstarch, arrowroot, flour, roux. All the regular stuff.
So what do you suggest Scott?
Thanks!
Permalink | Reply
No no! Don't throw it out yet! Play with it first to see what happens!
Since your cook-friend, ask that friend what to do with it!
To keep it from clumping when adding to liquid, mix it with salt or sugar (depending on if you are adding it to savory or sweet sauce/liquid). Take a whisk and whisk in a small circle while gently streaming in the guar gum/salt or sugar mixture. If you do this it will not clump.
Permalink | Reply
I have used guar gum for many years with no problems. My main use is as an emulsifier/thickener for vinaigrette type salad dressings. Guar gum works particularly well for this because it does not require heat to thicken and it adds NO taste to the dressings. I use a scant 1/4 - 3/8 tsp. for 16 fluid ounces of salad dressing. to get what I consider the ideal consistency.
I've tried using it for other things like gravies and sauces with some slightly mixed results. It's easy to use too much. But I've never had it result in a real disaster or a mistake that couldn't be fixed.
Bob's Red Mill is the brand I've used. And never experienced an off-taste or smell.
Permalink | Reply
I hope you haven't thrown it away yet! Candy may have had bad experiences w/ it, but I don't think it's a harmful product in general. It's actually in many processed foods and according to wikipedia and my biologist husband, it's natural and safe (at least from a scientific standpoint).
I googled to get more info and below are some links I found helpful since they also touch upon food uses. You may have seen these already, but they may enlighten someone else:
http://sci-toys.com/ingredients/guar_gum.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guar_gum
It can be used in items like salad dressings, sauces, ice cream, and pastry filling. The beauty is that it can be dissolved in cold water, prevents the formation of ice crystals, and gives the mouthfeel of fat. I found it interesting that it can prevent "weeping" in pastry cream which will prevent a tart crust from sogging.
If I went to the trouble of buying this stuff, I would def. experiment w/ it. I bet that Ferran Adria of El Bulli and his followers have recipes using this stuff. I'd have to see how it impacts homemade ice cream, just to compare to my non-gum bases. I would also ask your cook friend for ideas since he/she was the one who suggested it to you in the first place. Would love to hear any follow ups on your use. You may end up not liking it, but at least you can say you've tried it.
BTW, where did you buy it and how much does it generally cost?
Permalink | Reply
Guar gum doesn't seem to be all that popular with the Ferran Adria crowd. For some reason xanthan gum seems to be a lot more 'in.'
Permalink | Reply
As much as I recommended a careful approach in my previous post, I definitely wasn't advocating throwing your guar out. It definitely has it's uses. Soluble fiber gums (xanthan, guar, cellulose, locust bean) are excellent for promoting smaller ice crystal formation in homemade ice cream. They also add viscosity to the ice cream mix, allowing, in turn, better overrun (air)/improved scoopability. They're also good for stabilizing- salad dressing, as has been previously mentioned.
The one application where I find guar works wonderfully is cheese sauce. A roux stabilized cheese sauce is a bit tastier, but it involves a lot more time/energy. If you want a quick easy cheese sauce, guar will stabilize it nicely/help to prevent it from curdling. You don't need much- the cheese in the sauce does most of the thickening. Also, because of the lack of flavor diluting starch, guar cheese sauce is a lot cleaner tasting/bolder.
Guar is occasionally used in coconut milk to prevent it from separating. I've been experimenting with it in an effort to keep coconut milk from breaking when boiled. So far the results haven't been that great, though. I think the amount necessary for this purpose exceeds what I'm willing to use.
Xanthan has a good synergy with guar. If you turn out to like it, you might want to invest in some xanthan. I always use both.
Permalink | Reply
I'm intrigued with the guar in ice cream thing. What does it do for mouthfeel? If it "improves" overrun, does it make it airier (which, in my opinion, isn't necessarily a good thing)? Maybe you just have to be more careful about not allowing overrun or over churning? I'm a little hesitant to add something like this in ice cream, but if it improves texture (smaller ice crystals) without impairing flavor or mouthfeel, I'd be for it. That said, I remember one time leaving store-bought ice cream out overnight. In the morning, it looked really weird - it still had some shape to it - it wasn't just liquid sitting at the bottom. Kind of gross really, but I wasn't sure if it was still so airy because of the additives (like guar?) or because of all the overrun, which caused it to be sort of whipped. Thoughts?
Anyhow, I assume you'd use it in only very small amounts for ice cream? When would you add it? After the custard or ice cream base has been taken off of the heat - or when it is cold?
Permalink | Reply
I've used neutral stabilizer powder which is a mix of xanthan and guar gums in ice cream and sorbets. I posted my results here (scroll down to last post):
http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...
As you'll see guar gum by itself has also been used for ice cream. It pretty much removes all ice crystals and gives the sorbet/gelato a very smooth, creamy mouthfeel regardless of how long you freeze it. If you use the full amount in the Tyler's Ultimate recipe (about 1 Tb per quart) you'll get something that verges on slimy (sorry, that's the only word that comes to mind). My husband won't eat it because of that. I've used it in other mixes but at a lower rate, about 1 ts per quart. At this rate, it reduces the amount of crystallization, increases creaminess without adding any odd textures. It's worth keeping just for that. I've made gelato with less cream or egg yolks by adding a small amount of the powder which means the gelato is lower in fat without sacrificing mouthfeel.
Permalink | Reply
It's important to remember that ice cream is, among other things, a foam. Although commercial ice cream manufacturers abuse this trait by loading ice cream with as much air as they can get away with, for the home ice cream maker, some air incorporation is a good thing. Ice crystals are made up of water molecules in close proximity that have bonded with each other. Anything you can place in the path of these molecules will hinder their ability to form crystals. Dissolved solids are excellent for this purpose (sugar, corn syrup, milk solids), as are pockets of air.
Besides acting as a barrier to ice crystals, pockets of air weaken ice cream's structure overall and improve scoopability.
You'll want to add it as early as possible in the base-making process, as it takes a while to hydrate, especially if it wasn't incorporated well and clumps were formed.
Cheryl's 1 ts. per quart recommendation is about right for pure guar (I'd use a little less for multiple gums due to the synergy involved). Tyler's quantities (1 T. per quart) are... well... not indicative of a great deal of soluble fiber gum knowledge. This is definitely not one of the cases where if a little is good, more is better. Most of the ingredients in ice cream are very unforgiving when it comes to over or underutilization.
Permalink | Reply
about the clumping, does it help to make a really small slurry, like you do with cornstarch, where you mix it with a little cold liquid, then add it into the hot?
By the way, great, science-based information. Do you have a background in food science?
Permalink | Reply
Guar begins to hydrate/thicken as soon as it hits the water. It's completely different from corn starch where heat causes the starch granules to swell. A small slurry would be difficult to whisk. Guar requires agitation while being added to liquids to avoid clumping. Sprinkling it with one hand while vigorously whisking with the other works pretty well. If you have dry ingredients to pre-mix it with that works well also.
Clumping shouldn't be that much of an issue in ice cream due to the heat involved (heat helps clumps of guar break down) and the time necessary to chill the base (time breaks down clumps as well).
My background is as a chef, but food science is my passion- I read just about anything I can get my hands on.
Permalink | Reply
Scott,
I am attemtping to use Guar Gum and Xanthan Gum as stabilizer agents combined with Citric Acid, Sodium Benzoate, High Fructose, and Water basically making a thicker "Simple Sugar" to be used for Italian Water Ice or Sorbet. I am trying to find out how much Xanthan and Guar Gum I need to add to produce 1 gallon of this Simple Sugar to give my Italian Water Ice the smooth texture without making it runny or slimey. Your wisdom is greatly appreciated!!
Permalink | Reply
Thanks for all the replies!
It's turned out to be a lively conversation!
O.K., you guys talked me off the ledge.
I won't throw the guar away. I WILL try it in dressings. It sounds like a perfect way to use it. I think I may also experiment with cold dipping sauces that I want to tighten just a bit.
Thanks too for the slime warning. That creeps me out just a bit. lol
I don't make ice cream, so I won't be using it for that.
But the question STILL remains, what thicking agent do you use that doesn't break down when heated.
THANKS!
Permalink | Reply
Your original post said you found cornstarch to break down. I use it all the time for thickening when I'm cooking Chinese and have never found it to break down even at boiling temperatures. It's a great stabilizer IMO.
Permalink | Reply
I have to agree - I can't think of any time cornstarch has broken - at any heat - for me.
Permalink | Reply
Cornstarch, like most grain starches will not breakdown with heat. It will breakdown during reheating if one stirs it too much. Grain starch base sauces do not freeze well. When thawed they will separate and loses their thickening property.
Root starches such as arrowroot, potato starch and tapioca starch thicken at a lower temperature but will thin out if heated too high or too long or stir too vigoriously. But sauces made with these starches freezes well.
Permalink | Reply
Cornstarch, like most grain starches will not breakdown with heat. It will breakdown during reheating if one stirs it too much. Grain starch base sauces do not freeze well. When thawed they will separate and loses it's thickening property.
Root starches such as arrowroot, potato starch and tapioca starch thicken at a lower temperature but will thin out if heated too high or too long or stir too vigoriously. But sauces made with these starches freezes well
Permalink | Reply
Guar gum can be used quite effectively if mixed into your liquids very slowly, as described by other readers. I use guar gum in making homemade yogurt. Homemade yogurt tends to be quite runny, and guar gum gives it a natural, firmer texture (as opposed to gelatin which is an animal product). The reason guar gum has a bad reputation is because non prescription diet agents used it in their commercial products to give the dieter a "full feeling". This worked, but the large quantities of dry powdered guar gum mixed with liquids in the stomach and caused a binding effect which caused intestinal blockages. This practice was banned by the FDA in the 1990s. When used in small amounts properly, guar gum is quite safe and can greatly enhance the texture of your product. It is also much cheaper than agar agar (a natural gelatin) and contains no animal by products (as gelatin does).
Permalink | Reply