tom sietsema versus phyllis richman
phyllis richman:
liberal washingtonian who watched the DC food scene explode in the 1970's and 80's. literary romantic. wonderful writer. More in the generation of Ruth Riechel, Alice Waters, and even Craig Claiborne. definitely set herself apart from Washingtonian Magazine (which has always more or less catered to the interests and tastes of the affluent suburbs). Rumours about a vitriolic hatred of Robert Shoffner are true(and vice versa)...(if i see Shoffner drunk at another bar hitting on a 20'something waitress..while supposedly working..I will smack him!). Richman brought a lot of respect to the DC dining scene. And influenced many of the cooks and chefs to excel over the years with her passionate writing about food. She gave it import. She was the most humble looking food critic you would ever see. I am sure she was mistreated and ignored at many restaurants because of her odd, troll-like appearance. This only gave her even more insight into the workings of the restaurant, however.
Tom Sietsema, on the other hand-- is a relative newcomer to the city. San Francisco/ Kimpton/ Corporate tastes. Not as great a writer as Phyllis nor as evolved tastes..(which come with culture and not buying into all the corporate garbage). Sometimes I think he has the same style sensibilities as those two fellas that run the Inn at Little Washington. It is a value set that--ultimately -- is conservative gay chic.
He has a lot of challenges ahead in this city with its very diverse dining scene...and I think that is why there seems to be a bit of disappointment lingering in the air. Maybe he is trying to please everyone and thus pleasing no one...you know what I mean. However, I think the major disappointment is really about the decline of quality restaurants in the city and the general level of mediocrity. Basically, in the 80's and 90's...we had fewer restaurants that were just better and less expensive than they are today. What, is Tom Seitemsa supposed to continually lament this situation in his columns and depress all of us. No..I guess he is just supposed to make the best of it.
Fact is..this city needs an excellent and liberal urban food critic...like Eric Asimov of the NY Times who doesn't care what all of the suburbanites think.
nathan b.
Dec 19, 2002 09:11AM
What's wrong with conservative gay chic...and for that matter with putting your "i"s and "e"s in the right places?
R.
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I think that Richman was in the first generation of newspaper food critics (although there were others before her obviously) who had a real liking for food and for customer service in telling people whether a restaurant is good and what dishes are worth trying. Siestma is different, I think, in having literary pretensions and he seems to view his writing as more important than the food. He does try to scour the entire area and does a good job of finding new ethnic places that are worth a try.
I do think that the Washngton area has many fine top scale places to eat and, aside from the loss of French restaurants downtown, the area has better eating than 30 years ago when Richman started.
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Let's not bash the suburbanites. We eat out Downtown a lot. The restaurants would not have a lunch crowd without us.
And while we are at it, what is wrong with gay chic when it comes to restaurants. Considering the size of the gay community in DC, that is mainstream.
I am an unabashed far left liberal, btw, but I do not find food to be of any political party or bent. (other than the holier than thou vegians who think I am a Philistine because I like a rare steak)
I loved Phyllis Richman's reviews. But I also remember when she first started writing for the Post. There were a lot of people who did not particularly like her. Comments like too flowery, thinks she's a literary critic, etc. were common. However, they grew to love her and her style.
While I am not as impressed with Tom, I say we need to give him time to find his stride here in DC.
I will agree that there are not as many great restaurants in the city as there used to be, but the rich variety of ethnic food in DC makes this one of the premier citys for dining. Personally, I could care less about the Citronelle/Inn at Little Washington/Galileo crowd. I only eat in those restaurants on rare occasions, maybe 6 times a year. However, we do eat out two or three times a week I am interested in what is happening on the dining scene. What I do want to see is how are the new places? Are the neighborhood places opening up any good? Is that old favorite still a great deal? What new trend is happening here? Where is agood place to go before or after a show? Who has a great wine list that I can afford? Where can I go to get great seafood, steaks, etc.
From a purely selfish point of view, I wish there was more about MD restaurants since I live in MD. But since most of the Post's subscriptions are in the suburbs of course that is their focus. I just wish it wasn't so much on NVA since it is a major pain in the ass to get there from where I live.
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Nathan, this is an extremely interesting thread that you've started. Donald Dresden, I thought, was arrogant, aloof and lacked the "taste that I grew up with." I have no idea what his background was nor where he started but he never seemed like a Washingtonian. Phyllis did. She ate at Weile's (anyone on this board remember it? Better question does anyone remember the street where Weile's and Jerry's Sub Shop first started? Phyllis knew both because she grew up here.), recommended Gifford's as dessert after Crisfield's, saw both The Inn at Little Washington and L'Auberge Chez Francois evolve after they left downtown, witnessed the closing of La Salle Du Bois and the opening of Lion D'or, knew Washington when there were temporary buildings still on the Mall from World War II, when Washingtonians went to Chesapeake Beach, North Beach and Mayo because the Bay Bridge hadn't been built yet, when southern "accents" started just south of Old Town not south of Fredericksburg as they do today.
She was here when D. C. grew up and became one of the most beautiful and truly powerful cities in the world, when our restaurants rose above Richmond or Baltimore, she saw all of this and wrote about it. She was one of us, a true rarity, a native born Washingtonian.
When she went to Vancouver in the late '80's and wrote about Vancouver Chinese seafood restaurants, for me, starting with a Vancouver company (living here) this was really exciting. I'd had many, many group dinners at Szechuan on I Street. Going to Vancouver and being directed by her who had led me to so many places here, it was special. I knew her taste, I knew her values. I knew that I would like, even love her recommendations from years of comparing mine with her's here.
Over the years to come Tom Sietsema will replace her memory and leave his own mark. But he starts with several disadvantages most notably, for me, that he did not grow up here. When he writes about another city it does not have the meaning for me that Phyllis did. Her "discovering" Vancouver or Singapore were like my first visits; for Tom to write about a new city is just different since I still don't know his taste nor his values. I also don't share the wonderment since I myself am much older and have travelled a great deal since I first read about her travels. In a sense I grew up and matured with Phyllis and discovered, on my own, restaurants elsewhere as she did.
Yannick Cam and Jean Louis Palladin (later Roberto Donna)were the first two really great Washington chefs to rise above what we had known in this city. Both, especially Jean Louis, achieved national recognition. I suspect that if Phyllis Richmond had recommended a new suburban restaurant over Yannick (when I believe he has really "returned") I would not have even reacted. But Yannick Cam was part of D. C.'s growth and recognition in the '80's not only in dining but in culture and in world acceptance. Le Pavilion was truly great then, at least in the few times that I could afford to go. Perhaps it wasn't the best of Paris or even New York but it brought D. C. much closer than had most others before it.
I love this city as no other and even with friends in the suburbs cannot understand how they cannot go downtown more often to take advantage of it. When a part of it's "flowering" is criticized by someone who grew up here I am much more likely to accept it. When the criticism or omission is from someone who has relatively recently moved her then I become agressive. (For better or worse.)
Over time, for me, Tom Sietsema will settle in and I'll no longer be critical. This really has very little to do with him. It has much more to do with me and my ability to accept him as "one of us" as Phyllis Richman (who I never met) was. Over the years Tom will "become" a Washingtonian as have so many who follow and contribute to this board. But to grow roots in a town that most who live elsewhere have difficulty thinking of as a hometown can take a little bit longer than most.
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Well said, Joe. Your passion and erudition are inspiring, as always.
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Weile's and Jerry's both started, I believe, on University Boulevard. Am I close enough to have any credibility?
I think the underlying issue behind all of the interest shown on this thread is that there isn't enough good food writing in the Washington area. Whether or not Sietsema focuses too much on downtown or on high-end places is only arguable because it point out that there's almost no one else attempting to fill the need for intelligent writing on the wide range (economic and geographic) of places of interest. I don't always agree with Sietsema, Zibart, the Richmans, Shoffner, or any one critic, but I want to hear all of their opinions, and many more.
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Ah, there were giants in those days....
You realize, of course, that there is a general human tendancy toward romanticizing the past.
Both Phyllis and Tom are talented writers and are interesting to read. That doesn't mean any of their opinions are worth anything apart from the maketplace.
If I'm not mistaken, that's what this site is all about: to add to, or divert from what is already available in the media. So, no matter how talented they are, I say "screw 'em, they wouldn't know a good meal from a parking ticket."
On to another subject: your use of the word 'gay' is perjorative, as if this limits the value of his writing. To say nothing of a stereotype which adds no real meaning. "Conservative chic" would have meant more. Your opinion would still be wrong, but it would have at least exhibited better skill.
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Ummmmmm... did she die?? Sorry, I don't get the Post except for occasionally from borders now. I have to weigh in, so to speak, about Phyllis because I used to read her reviews and get annoyed, coming from the perspective that what you eat is important to health- me going for the best in seafood, vegetarian ethnic fare, mostly in the low-fat range. She often made what I thought were snotty remarks about people who cared about avoiding heart attacks, who were vegetarian and I used to wonder how soon she'd die of a heart attack. So, what happened??
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She retired from the Post and now writes mystery novels where the narrator & sleuth is a restaurant critic in DC, such as "Who's Afraid of Virginia Ham" good but with a flawed ending...so she's still alive and presumably still a lovable gruff glutton.
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Thank you, Nathan, for a spirited and persuasive posting. I absolutely line up with you on both Richman and Sietsema. Phyllis wrote so well that just reading her stuff was an aesthetic experience, irrespective of the qualities of the restaurant under consideration. Her love for words matched her love for food. As for Sietsema, no amount of experience is going to elevate his prose. I do not doubt his enthusiasm for a wide range of gastronomy, but I would read him only if I were about to visit the restaurant he's reviewing -- and even then I would expect to wade through a lot of disorganization before arriving at the essence.
Time for trivia: who were the two Post food critics before Richman? Hints: Bill and John.
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Please read my post below-respectfully but it was Donald Dresden who immediately preceded her when she took over around 1975 or so. John Carmody wrote for the Evening Star, later the Times. Unless Bill (a name that does not immediately come to mind) wrote for the Daily News or preceded Dresden he was not a major critic in this city. One comment about Sietsema: he does have a legitimate passion (as, of course, did Phyllis Richman) for food. I remember an early essay of his when he was introduced to us wherein he talked about spending his own money to travel extensively just to experience food. I also remember when Phyllis first started: Dresden was an institution and feared in this town. (Reading his prose he came off as rather arrogant to me.) Phyllis was a local who had not yet proved herself. For the reason that I trusted her and miss her years from now we may be able to say the same about Sietsema. It took her time, it will take him time.
New trivia question: who does Donald Dresden occasionally write for today?
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Right, I guess I forgot about Dresden because he never seemed to review the kind of place I liked or could afford at the time. The ones I was thinking of were Bill Rice, who went off to edit Gourmet Magazine (or was it Bon Vivant?) and now is the wine and food columnist for the Chicago Tribune, and before him John Pagones, who was really more of a reporter than a critic, but whose beat was restaurants, and who fled the Post in the mid or late '60s to become a real estate agent.
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Stephen, I apologize for even bringing up Dresden-his name does not elicit either warm memories of a food critic or a time when D. C. was on the national scene. Also it's a real pleasure to have another on this board who goes back for several decades. "Flavormeister" who now lives, I believe, in South Florida can match me memory for memory-he grew up here as did my wife in Arlington. Like myself, even in grade school, he probably spent far too much time thinking about whether he would have a Sir Loiner or a Mighty Mo for lunch on Saturday. I'll bet he doesn't even know that Brenner's after 50 years or so has finally closed unless he still follows this board every day.
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Sietsema has pretty much admitted that he reviews lesser restaurants in the 'burbs because that's where the Post deems that it's readership is. (They don't seem to take into account the many, many tourists and business travellers who read the post online and visit DC--not the 'burbs.) I think the Post is making a big and irresponsible mistake in attempting to give the 'burbs equal play in terms of entertainment, art and culture reporting. I get the impression that Sietsema is not particularly thrilled by this arrangement. I believe he's said in the past that he expected that the majority of his reviews would be in DC.
The Post restaurant reviews could really serve as a catalyst for the revitalization of neighborhoods, urban life, and high quality food, but right now they seem more concerned with finding restaurants where Post readers can find a parking space for their SUVs and don't have to worry about encountering any unsavory "gritty" (a favorite Post descriptor) urban life. Don't even get me started about Zibart's Bethesda obsession--I don't even bother to read her stuff anymore.
And then Sietsema complains that there are no good neighborhood restaurants in DC. From what I can tell, the Post doesn't even recognize the names of different DC neighborhoods above and beyond Capital Hill, Georgetown, Dupont Circle, Cleveland Park and Adams Morgan. They rarely give accurate metro or public transit information.
That said, I was pleasantly surprised by this year's dining guide. Not because it tread any new ground for me, but mostly because it reflected a lot of chowhound discoveries. He clearly reads this forum.
P.S. I agree about the "gay" crack. That's totally uncalled for. Sexual preference is not a culinary or literary matter!
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Well, I'm perhaps guilty of starting some of this since several months ago I criticized him for reviewing a relatively obscure and (I thought) not very notewrothy sushi restaurant in an outlying shopping center somewhere southwest of Herndon. I felt this was wasting the time of the lead critic of the Washington Post.
I still do.
Unless I'm mistaken but the role of Phyllis Richman was to weekly review significant restaurants both in and around the Washington area. Tom's review of the restaurant in Easton is consistent with this-it is a significant restaurant worth a trip from downtown Washington. If he goes into Bethesda or Tyson's it (for me) should be for a restaurant like Colvin Run or Maestro or Restaurant Seven. Not for something that would better be suited to Thursday's or Friday's Post.
When Phyllis was off I NEVER remember Mark and Gail Barnett reviewing a top restaurant. In fact to take it further if a restauranteur was reviewed by them INSTEAD of Phyllis it was a statement that they were not on the level of her interest. At least I interpreted it like that. I wanted her judgment which, as I noted below, that I trusted and mostly agreed with to discern one better restaurant from another. Mark and Gail Barnett RARELY, if ever, were really critical of anywhere they went.
Today, I think Eve Zibarte is a giant step above them. I enjoy her writing although I may disagree with some of her opinions. She could easily fill in for Sietsema and, because he is still relatively new, have as much credibility for some of us.
But I personally think the Post owes it to its readers to establish a major critic and have ONLY that critic visit the significant restaurants for review. More often than not these restaurants will be in Washington simply because of the nature of Washington, D. C. It IS a major international city. Many of the restaurants that people in the suburbs clamor for reviews of simply aren't on the level of what one can find downtown. Not all, but most.
It is these that belong in Friday's paper not Sunday's. Sietsema, for me, was hired to fill Phyllis' shoes: he should go to the kind of restaurants she did.
Neighborhood restaurants, suburban restaurants, far outlying restaurants-they all belong in Thursday and Friday's papers unless they are truly significant. Then they should appear in Sunday. This says nothing about where the restaurant is. Only the level of importance that it is on.
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I couldn't disagree with you more.
The Post's outlook reflects our changing society perfectly. The 'burbs, and the dining options, are getting larger, more delicious, more important, and more diverse every minute. For a top critic not to give them major billing at this point would be backwards looking. You can drift away, you know, by standing still.
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Yeah, my question is, actually how many of The Post readers are official residents of DC, MD or VA?
Wasn't the last DC census about 800,000?
MD & VA suburbs have many more resident Post readers.
Personally I wouldn't want 80% of Sietsema's reviews to be DC restaurants only, even tho I work down here.
As it is, the majority of his restaurant reviews are for places too expensive for me...
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But DC is the hub. The center of culture in the region. You can live in Maryland and never go to Reston to see a play. You can live in Reston and never go to Bethesda to see a concert. You can't live in Reston or Maryland and never go to DC if you want to see a play, go to a concert, go to a top notch museum, etc., etc.
I've lived in DC for 10 years and I've never once needed to go to Reston, Gaithersburg, Bethesda, Tyson's Corner, Alexandria, Arlington, Wheaton, Chevy Chase, etc, etc. to have my cultural needs met.
800,000 people live in a 61 square miles--one of the densest urban areas in the country. Many more people (millions?) work and visit DC every day. Sure Fairfax has a million people, but that is in 399 square miles. No wonder they're stuck in their cars.
I can walk to hundreds of restaurants within 10 blocks of my house and find almost every ethnic restaurant represented (except good Cuban and Korean--damn!).
Where else in the region can top the diversity and quality of the culture, dining and entertainment of DC? Should the Post start reviewing suburban children's school band concerts and high school plays because they're closer to their readers' homes? I'm not dissing all of the Post's suburban reviews, I'm just saying that better restaurants in DC are often getting passed over for lesser suburban venues.
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The Post *does* publish reviews of suburban children's plays and sometimes concerts - in the local sections published every Thursday. I believe these reviews are written by other high school students, but they're there.
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Actually, that's Mike Toscano who writes reviews of suburban community theatres and a few small pro ones that show up in the Thursday Post Extras. Unfortunately, the editors of the Montgomery and DC Extras are stingy in what reviews of his they'll publish, if any. The VA & PG Extras are more generous.
They also have this "Cappies" feature where HS students write reviews of local HS theatre, but the shows have allready closed, sometimes there are TWO reviews for the same show & I think the program only exists so these students can say "My story got published in The Post".
Also, the Extras publish restaurant reviews about once a month.
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Certainly I agree with most of what you said. I imagine so does just about everyone reading this. However, if you think you live 10 blocks from some of the best food this areas has to offer, then as a chowhound you have blinders on.
For example, I never thought I would have an interest in eating in Langley Park, MD. As an Arlington resident, I am rarely up that way. But I doubt you could find a restaurant in DC that is the equivalent of Woodlands, in food or the surroundings. It's a real trip. Sure, I've eaten South Indian in DC, but I can't claim it's the same experience.
Another example is the Eden Center at Seven Corners. None of the 25 or so Vietnamese restaurants there are my favorite, (that's in Clarendon) but still you can eat great food in any of these places for as little as 6 bucks. Also, you'll find menu items there that you won't elsewhere. And roaming the interior hallways in search of great exotic grub is an enduring pleasure. No doubt, you can go to a thai restaurant near where you live, but in a few minutes I can be at the homey Ghin Na Ree (getting the daily special is like being invited to a freind's place) or the country-thai of Rabeing that are astounding in such different ways.
Please, do yourself a favor, as a chowhound, and get thee to the suburbs. You'll be surprised, and I hope, pleased.
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I don't at all mean to imply that the 'burbs don't have anything to offer in terms of ethnic food. I've been to all those places (except Ghin Na Ree, thanks for the tip). I'd add Afghan restaurant on Route 1 in Alexandria and any of the many Korean places in Annandale as top-notch examples.
Actually, I didn't say I could go to the best of every ethnic restaurant within 10 blocks. I said:
"I can walk to hundreds of restaurants within 10 blocks of my house and find almost every ethnic restaurant represented"
And this is absolutely true: Ethiopian, Vietnamese, Thai, Soul Food, Vegetarian Soul Food, West Indian, African, Ghanaian, Salvadorean, Peruvian Chicken, Kabobs, Persian, Indian, Middle Eastern, Afghan, Spanish, Pakistani, Somali, Brazilian, Chinese, Mexican--just off the top of my head.
Of course not every restaurant within walking distance of my house is the absolute best in class--though many are, particularly the Ethiopian, African, Soul Food, West Indian, Spanish, and Salvadorean places! What I'm saying is that the density, diversity and quality of DC Dining can't be matched by any suburban community.
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More on Ghin Na Ree, please.
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It's a small, pretty family place in the Lee-Harrison shopping center that's been there forever. It's been a while since I've been there, so this is not a recent rec. In addition to very nice renditions of things you may find elsewhere, they would also post a single daily special that featured a dish or a preparation that would be hard to find elsewhere. Very quiet and pretty place, two things I really appreciate when the food is good.
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Actually, being a thespian, I know that some excellent professional theatres have been operating in the suburbs, so a trip downtown to DC is not warranted as much nowadays for good theatre. Unless it's a tourist wanting to see the latest "bus-and-truck" musical at the National, Warner or Kennedy Center. And top-notch concert facilities are now in places like College Park and Germantown.
The suburban theatres may be smaller, but there's quality to be had at Arlington's Signature Theatre, Le Neon, Teatro de la Luna, and American Century Theatre, Bethesda's Round House Theatre & Quotidian Theatre, Olney's Theatre. Etc.
It's just that once I commute home to get to daycare, I ain't coming back downtown again for dinner. Nor on the weekend, as I commute to & from DC 10 times a week and would like a break on the weekends. Bringing visitors occasionally to see the museums & monuments is a different matter. Some of them have young kids anyway & have blown most of their vacation budget on air fare, car rental & hotels, so we're not going to be headed for a fancy, adult-oriented downtown restaurant with $20 entrees...
I'm a MoCo resident, but I eat much more in downtown DC than I ever do in Bethesda, even tho it's 10 min. from my house. I work 5 days a week in DC but rarely like dining in Bethesda because parking is horrific, rest. turnover can be high & it gets clogged with traffic. In fact, I prefer multi-national meals in Wheaton & Silver Spring anyway (lower rents mean lower prices anyway).
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The VAST majority of top tier restaurants are in Washington. If you do not take advantage of this, one of the most beautiful cities in the world, it is your loss. Going out in downtown Bethesda, the Rockville Pike, Tyson's, etc. is not the same as Pennsylvania Avenue or Georgetown or Capitol Hill.
Again, it is the merit of the individual restaurant. While better restaurants are opening in the suburbs, especially the Northern Virginia suburbs (Maestro, Colvin Run, Le Relais) the distinct emphasis is still on downtown Washington.
I personally believe it is a real loss that so many large American cities no longer have vibrant downtown areas. Atlanta (Buckhead is not downtown), Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles etc. all have downtowns that pale in comparison to San Francisco, New York, Boston, Chicago and D. C.
If you go to Paris do you stay in the burbs? Barcelona? London? Why would someone cross an ocean to go to the Rockville Pike?
Before you tell me that D. C.'
s suburbs are different I suggest that you drive into town on the GW Parkway one evening and drive around the Mall area. Play tourist. This is one of the greatest cities in the world. You're lucky to live here. Take advantage of it. Coincidentally most restauranteurs recognize this and go after the more prestigious downtown as their first choice.
As much as Bethesda and Old Town have evolved (I drove a cab in Bethesda through college), as large as Tyson's has grown, with more office space in Reston (where I live) than downtown Miami, they still have nothing in common with the power and beauty of downtown Washington.
Again, take advantage of this city. That is one of the reasons behind restaurant week's $20 luncheon promotions: to have people, locals come out and rediscover what people from all over the world come here for.
This IS one of the great cities in the world. It is YOUR loss if you do not take advantage of it.
Another thought: Go to Obelisk for dinner. Afterwards walk out on Connecticut Avenue and just take a walk in any direction. Wherever you go if you close your eyes you will not know when you open them if you are in London, Paris, Milan or D. C.
You won't have the same feeling on the Rockville Pike or Lee Highway.
The vast majority of better restaurants are in D. C. where they should be. As such they receive more exposure in the WASHINGTON Post. For those who are reading this I know that I'm off topic by now and I apologize. But there are so many people in this city that disassociate themselves from D. C. and never go downtown (other than perhaps for a job) that they really do not take advantage of it. Yet these same people want to go to Paris or Rome or London-anywhere but not downtown Washington.
I sold a large piece of equipment to a business in the suburbs of Paris in 1999. To make the sale I had four or five trips. On the last one my wife went with me and I suggested to the General Manager of the company that he and his wife join us for dinner in downtown Paris. He thought we were crazy. Crazy!!!!! Go into Paris? What fool would go into Paris with such horrible traffic, bloated prices, grafitti everywhere and crime. Crime!!
I was shocked.
For me Paris was one of a number of cities that people who grow up elsewhere spend much of their lives hoping that they can visit before they die. To hear someone who was born there and lived there for 50 years say this was virtually unbelievable.
Until I realized that many of my neighbors in Reston (and years ago in Montgomery County) will have the same attitude about Washington, D. C. And Parisians both in the suburbs and out as well as those from South America, Japan, Seoul, Prague-the rest of the world-think of D. C. in the same way we think of Paris.
He was wrong about Paris. My neighbors are wrong about Washington.
Go out to Tosca, then go to the National or Warner for a show. Then you'll understand why there are more better restaurants downtown than in all of the suburbs combined. As there should be.
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"Don't interrupt him...he's on a roll."
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You're right. You definitely went off topic. It wasn't even a response to what I said, really.
Be that as it may:
I love DC as much as anyone, I think, and I spend a great deal of leisure time (and all of my work time) in it. I have worked 93% of my adult life in the professional theatre, and among the great cultural offerings of DC, I have rarely missed a production at Woolly Mammoth, perhaps the greatest theatre company in the US, and maybe even the world. If you missed their production of "Recent Tragic Events" (I saw it twice), then maybe it is you who have missed the truly extraordinary that DC has to offer.
Now I am off topic!
As far ar this site is concerned, all I care about is eating well. As my wife can attest, I will go to great lengths to have an Amazing Eating Experience. Much to her chagrin. Fortunately for me, there are a number of places I can WALK to from my home in Arlington that will send me to the moon and back for just a few bucks. If I get into my car, a few minutes drive will broaden the choice. If I am alone in my opinion, then at the very least my contribution to this site will be unique.
I'm almost positive that the high end restaurants in DC which you are talking about are being covered by Tom S. If any have been left out, he will get to them soon, I'm sure. If he doesn't, they probably wouldn't be located downtown anyway, negating your point.
In most every way possible, DC has great cultural riches. But there is spectacular eating to done in the 'burbs, and there are many kinds of restaurants, and MORE OF THEM, that simply don't exist in DC. Surely, Joe, you already know the kinds of places I'm talking about.
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"There are a number of places I can WALK to from my home in Arlington that will send me to the moon and back for just a few bucks."
OK, Steve -- time to dish! What are the lunar greats?
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I'm glad you called me on that.
I am a 15 minute walk to the Eden Center. And I adore vietnamese food. The going rate at many of the places is 6 bucks for grilled pork and spring rolls over funny noodles, and I swear I could eat that dish every night of my life and fall in love each time. I'm not sure I have a favorite place at the Center, though I have come to appreciate the differences of the ones I have tried. Within the last six months, I've been 3 times to a place that faces the main parking area opposite the way that 4 Sisters faces. The place that has outdoor seating (when it's nice). Honestly, I don't even know the name, but they always have a Japanese style-screen near the cash register. (that's how I recognise it when I peek into the window). They make a nice 'roast beef' version of the simple dish mentioned above. Cuu Long, the place with the mural at the end of one of the interior courtyards is also a good choice.
I recently had the fortune of stumbling into El Pike, also at Seven Corners, in the Willston Shopping Center. It's really quite a trip. They have music most nights, the atmosphere is festive, and I adore the hefty saltenas (at 2 bucks each!). This has got to be the cheapest best thing to eat on the planet. And, because I live in between Westover and Seven Corners, I can also hop on over to Thai Noy and Lebanese Taverna. Thai Noy has many good renditions of what you might find elsewhere, but the very cheap, simple chicken fried rice can be heavenly. And with Lebanese Taverna, I can have Baba Ganoush (one of my favorite things to eat). Of course, I've gone pretty deep in the menu there, and I've never been disappointed. Their roast chicken in puri ( I don't recall the menu name)as well as the chicken over fried pita in yogurt sauce are excellent choices. The vegetarian cabbage dish is like my grandmother used to make and she, of course, was the best cook in the world.
Even closer to my home, I can go to La Cote d'or and have the Salade Vendeene which is more than sublime. It's a simple dish that you could not find if you walk into a thousand French restaurants. (because the Vendee is not a very touristed department). I've been there, though, and this combination of sauteed artichokes, bacon and onion over leafy greens is as good as you'd find there. It's so good, that I have ordered only that in my four visits there.
In any case, I don't necessarily think that any one of these places is the best example of that kind of cooking. My favorite vietnamese dish may very well be the vietnamese steak at Cafe Saigon (clarendon). If I lived in Rockville, I'd regularly go to Katz's Supermarket to pick up the Sabra brand of Baba Ganoush and also their Spanish style sliced eggplant. I'd go to Joe's Noodle House. I've already posted about the South Indian area that has grown up in Langley Park. If I drive, I can eat anything at Rocklands and walk away thinking that God is good. (I looooove greens). And finally, if I lived on Capitol Hill - yes, I know it's DC- I would make Swamp Thing at B. Smith's a regular part of my diet. It is outrageously good.
Still, I lament the great, great places that have closed, including Kabul Caravan, Pasha Cafe, La Cantanita, and Lillian's. La Cantanita had become, through the years, better than even my favorite places in Miami, most of which now have South Americans in the kitchen, because the Cubans are doing too well to be preparing cheap meals of black beans and rice. In dc, I will forever miss Duke Zeibert's, Kolbeh, Sonny's Wings, and the strangest and best pizza of my life, Bill's of Beverly Hills. (Bill's pizza was impossibly thin, and then he even made a super-thin crust that I swear was one-sided.) But I digress.
Years ago, it would have been impossible to find intense ethnic neighborhoods outside of the city. In Washington now, it's the other way around.
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Great, great post, Steve. Extremely helpful -- and mouth-watering! Thanks!
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Steve: great call on the Salade Vendeene at Cote D'or. I work within walking distance of that place, so we go their when a good lunch is called for. I ordered it purely on a whim one day, only because we have two dogs of the breed known as Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen (Small Wiry-Haired Dog From the Vendee), and I thought it was quite interesting that a dish was named for such an obscure part of France.
The salad was excellent, and I have ordered it several times since. That plus Cote D'or's irresistable bread makes for a very nice lunch.
P.S. I envy the fact that you have been to the Vendee! You might have even seen some of my male dog's relatives (it's a pretty rare breed in the U.S., but common enough in the Vendee that you could very well have seen some).
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The Vendee (pronounced Von-day) is a department (like a county) of France. It has Atlantic coastline, above La Rochelle, and a good deal of the Marais Poitevin, a formerly huge bay that was canalised by Benedictine monks in the 13th century. Eels and oysters figure prominently in the food there. Also Vendeen(Von-day-en)Ham which has a very unusual strong flavor, served without sauce but with an accompaniment of 'mojettes' (like butter beans) and farcis Maraichine (a kind of spinach pate) can be found in absolutley every traitteur and restaurant in the region. They are the kind of delicacies that are impossible to find outside of the region - maybe because nobody elsewhere would eat them!
Much of the Marais has a barren quality. But there is a part in which Alder trees have grown in between the canals and have created an unusual paradise called the Marais Mouille (the wet marsh) nicknamed The Green Venice. And it really is like Venice in a forest! Anyone wanting further info can visit www.parc-marais-poitevin.fr (nice photos)
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It would be ridiculous for the Post's main critic to only review "top tier" restaurants in the city. DC proper does not have enough good restaurants to support that kind of attention. If your neighbors don't like to go into the city, a good review of a restaurant there is not going to change their minds. I think the Tom S. covers a lot of ground and thank goodness. It is totally unrealistic to think everyone is going to eat every meal out in the city. Your personal experience does not apply to everyone else in the metro area.
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I'm sorry but perhaps I didn't express myself clearly enough. I perceive his role as going to more significant/better restaurants to review them. The majority of these are in the city of Washington. If there are a disproportionate number of city restaurants visited it is because of this. Covering restaurants in the suburbs IS part of his role-as long as the restaurant is on a certain level.
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I completely agree with Steve on this issue. I work in Reston and live in Falls Church. After a day at work and dealing with that damn traffic in Tysons, I'd rather know about the restaurant around the corner than some pricey joint that requires more driving and a 45-minute train ride. Sometimes practical considerations preclude aesthetic ones.
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It's ironic that I find this post today, since I just went on a wild ride through Western Fairfax in search of just that sushi place that he reviewed. I went to it soon after the review, but forgot where it was located, and ended up stopping at a library to go online and search the WP website. It happens to be a stellar sushi place, so I think in this case the excursion to the boonies was worth it. There are, after all, people who live and work in this part of the metro region who still consider themselves Washingtonians, and since the place is an offshoot of the venerable Sushi Taro, I think the review was warranted.
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"He clearly reads this forum"???!!!
That's a bit egotistical don't you think?
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It is possible that he does. In truth there are a lot of food writers as well as restaurant owners, chefs and others active in the industry who follow ChowHound. Not to steal from something they may see but rather just to share their passion for food. Then there are some who write for no one yet post exquisite essays about dining adventures.
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In his weekly chats he's referenced the chowhounds and has brought up topics that were being discussed concurrently on the list.
Sietsema's job is to keep his ear to the ground on all culinary matters in DC. I'm sure he uses the list as a resource just like any other 'hound. That he's paying attention to the discussions of DC's most fanatical foodies is actually a really good sign, isn't it?
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Hi Washingtonians,
I have enjoyed reading your posts on this topic. I love your passion for your great city. Tom Sietsma was a restaurant critic here in Seattle some years ago. Since he left, we have had at least 4, maybe 5, people in that role. Latest is Penelope Corcoran. She's OK I guess, but still the new kid on the block. Perhaps we'll come to love her in the future as you loved Phyllis and probably will grow to love Tom.
R
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Joe H: I think Weile's and Jerry's both started on University Boulevard. Is that close enough to give me credibility?
I think the amount of interest shown on this string points out a couple of important points: First, that there is an incredible interest in food in Washington; and second: that it's not well-served by any of the major publications. I don't necessarily agree that Sietsema's job should be to review only the top restaurants in the city, but somebody needs to establish the credentials to do that. And at the same time, whether it's the Richmans or Zibart, or somebody from some other paper, we also need more coverage of the local spots. for example, I'm sure the Post has lots of writers eating expense account meals every day - we ought to be able to read about more than 2 or 3 places a week!
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Both Jerry's and Weile's moved from Kennedy Street, Northwest just off of Georgia Avenue to their respective locations in Wheaton and Langley Park. I'm not old enough to remember either of them from Kennedy Street but I first went to Jerry's with some friends on a "bike hike" in the early '60's when Sol and his wife owned it. (Jerry's Sub Shop was named after their son, Jerry.) Later they sold out to "Max" who had a much more outgoing personality (they were really tempermental-they made subs the way they wanted to make them, not the way that you might ask for!) and established its reputation although the food was the same. Today it's TOTALLY different. I still believe that the original Jerry's Roast Beef sub made with a garlic/mayo/russian dressing and hot peppers tossed in pickle juice on an Ottenberg roll is one of the best subs I have ever had anywhere, White House in Atlantic City, Jim's Steak's on South Street, etc. included. Like Hodge's on New York Avenue they roasted their own beef and sliced it to order for the sandwich.
You cannot get it today.
They were also the first place I ever saw in the D. C. area that chopped onions and let them cook on the grill all day long similar to the Philly places.
At some point in the late '70's Max and his wife sold to several guys who worked for them while going to the University of Maryland (Adam Schwartz and Bob Beigleman) and they are credited for growing it into the large chain that it is today.
Sometime in the mid '80's I heard that Max had opened a sub shop in St. Petersburg selling the exact same subs that he originally made in Wheaton. I never found this although I did try a couple of times. I don't know it's name or if it is even still in business.
I'd kill for an original roast beef sub though!
Weile's used Breyer's ice cream but was famous for the $30.00 Washington Monument sundae (1964) which was a kind of banana split/sundae with many gallons of ice cream and toppings. They had all kinds of gimmicky sundaes and sodas that involved enormous sizes and containers ("I Bet You Can't", "Lincoln Memorial", the "Wash Tub"-it WAS a wash tub!). They were an extremely popular art deco ice cream that also served very good hamburgers in Langley Park but eventually, as most everything else in Langley Park, closed and changed hands.
Gifford's back then was always superior but my friends in hs favored Weile's because it was a real challenge to eat one of their monstrous creations. There was also a working dairy called Martin's Dairy in the late '50's that was considered better than Gifford's. I am NOT talking about the Martin's Dairy that was around from the '70's through the '90's. Same location and name but totally different. In the '50's I can remember taking a Sunday drive out there and you could smell and see the cows while eating the ice cream. Sounds crazy but there are several places outside of Boston (Richardson's) and in Pennsylvania (Route 100 south of Allentown) that are still like this.
One more off topic comment: the Wednesday food section of the Post, for me, has REALLY gone down hill. It would seem that much of its budget has been scraped and redirected elsewhere. Once it was one of the best food sections of any American paper but not today.
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